[BEAST MASTERY]Legion Alpha Discussion

[Nythiz]

If anyones done any sims (because i'm lazy) what does it look like a good stat priority could be? Looks like haste (even tho very little) reduces the CD on DB which could make it stronger for sustained but idk honestly whats everyones thoughts?

I think the current priority that's been floating around is: Mastery >> Haste > Crit > Versatility.

[Galaar]

I think the current priority that's been floating around is: Mastery >> Haste > Crit > Versatility.

I'm kinda curious about any haste plateaus we'll need to hit as well so sims would be awesome. Is SimCraft updated for Legion as of yet?

My 828 hunter is sitting the following build:

Crit: 3002 (24%)
Haste: 3811 (12%)
Mastery: 8829 (75%)
Vers: 1448 (4%)

Talents are:

Way of Cobra - Chimaera Shot - Dash - Bestial Fury - Intimidation - A Murder of Crows - Aspect of the Beast

I've been looking at switching talents for dungeons (example going to barrage instead of crows and going to stampede or killer cobra over AotB) but wanted to see if anyone here had any other tips. Also, is Dire Fenzy stacking up better then Chimaera for some?

Thanks and happy hunting all!

[Klapi]

An absolute beast talent for dungeons is Stomp. I mainly use Stampede where there's even a small possibility of cleave but Killer Cobra is the best single target talent afaik. In mythic + where you can't change talents i'd definitely go with Way of the Cobra - Stomp - you could argue which is the best between One with the pack and Bestial Fury - Barrage and Stampede .

[Galaar]

An absolute beast talent for dungeons is Stomp. I mainly use Stampede where there's even a small possibility of cleave but Killer Cobra is the best single target talent afaik. In mythic + where you can't change talents i'd definitely go with Way of the Cobra - Stomp - you could argue which is the best between One with the pack and Bestial Fury - Barrage and Stampede .

That's awesome thanks for the info. I really hate this needing an item to change talents crap.

- - - Updated - - -

I was looking at Dire Frenzy and frankly not really excited about it. In theory it sounds really cool with the stacking attack speed mechanism but right now at 12% haste the cooldown is at 13.4 seconds. With buff only lasting 8 seconds it completely depends on Wild Call's 20% chance to reset cooldown on Dire Beast (assuming that Wild Call applies to this since it replaced Dire Beast). I think I'll start running stomp more.

[Deleted]

is dire frenzy supposed to havea higher CD then dire beast ? 10.4 vs 13 sec on ptr with my copyed char.
Also if you pick Bestial fury, the tooltip of bestial wrath changes to "Each dire beast reduce the CD by 35 sec". This does not work thou, still 15. Bugg or tooltip error ?

[Deleted]

which race for 7.0 bm?

[Galaar]

is dire frenzy supposed to havea higher CD then dire beast ? 10.4 vs 13 sec on ptr with my copyed char.
Also if you pick Bestial fury, the tooltip of bestial wrath changes to "Each dire beast reduce the CD by 35 sec". This does not work thou, still 15. Bugg or tooltip error ?

Yeah the 15 vs 35 has been either a tooltip bug or actual bug for a while. I'm assuming it was 35 sec but they reduced it and never changed the tooltip. I think Dire Frenzy has a higher CD then Dire Beast due to the amount of focus it generates.

[Nythiz]

An absolute beast talent for dungeons is Stomp. <...>.

Do keep in mind that out of the 3 talents in this tier, Stomp is the only one not giving you extra focus.
I'm not saying it's not the best pick for dungeons (i don't think there is much use in debating which of the three is the highest dps yet); but that "lack" of focus generation is something to keep in mind.

Dire Frenzy gives you 25 focus / 15 seconds instead of DB's 12 focus / 12 seconds. Which is an extra 0.667 focus per second.
Chimaera shot gives you an extra 10-20 focus per 9 seconds, which is an extra 1.111-2.222 focus per second extra.

Also not quite sure how dire frenzy interact with some of the artifact traits and buffs. On top of the extra focus, the increased attack speed might synergize extremely good with beastcleave (maybe making it a go-to talent with higher gear level). Also there is some Titanstrike synergy with Dire Frenzy (where you get 200% AP extra damage per Dire Frenzy "flurry attack"), and I'm not sure if that counts as a regular attack for beastcleave.

So, I completely understand that Stomp is really cool for mythic plus AoE pulls. But the other 2 talents have some added depth to them that without a solid simulation (or extensive calculations) is quite hard to judge properly.
Stomp sounds fun though, some massive AoE damage.

(I personally still hope that Dire Frenzy becomes a really good talent; I prefer the class fantasy concept of having 2 really strong pets over just spawning/calling "random wild beasts" out of the blue.)

- - - Updated - - -

is dire frenzy supposed to havea higher CD then dire beast ? 10.4 vs 13 sec on ptr with my copyed char.
Also if you pick Bestial fury, the tooltip of bestial wrath changes to "Each dire beast reduce the CD by 35 sec". This does not work thou, still 15. Bugg or tooltip error ?

Galaar is right.

Dire Frenzy is suppose to have a higher cooldown (base CD of DB = 12 seconds and DF = 15 seconds, both reduced by haste).
Dire Frenzy however gives 25 focus instantly every 15 seconds; Dire Beasts gives 12 focus over 8 seconds every 12 seconds.

On top of that you get 30% haste for your pet and a flurry attack.
I think the stacking mechanism for this is mostly in case you get a few lucky procs, just so you don't get hefty diminishing returns on this talent in case you get lucky (or later on when you have better gear)

And indeed Dire Beasts used to reduce BW's cooldown by 35 seconds, they haven't fixed the tooltip yet.
They decided to reduce that when they got reports of people having 100% uptime on BW

[Deleted]

Dire frenzy also does not work with our current 2p set bonus. Gotta asume that just a bugg aswell.

[Deleted]

Seems like BM is better than MM for current state of beta.
What talent you pick for level 100 - Stampede for AoE and Killer Cobra for single? Third one seems kinda useless to me.
Also from level 15 tier, which one you pick? Dire stable?

[Deleted]

Seems like BM is better than MM for current state of beta.
What talent you pick for level 100 - Stampede for AoE and Killer Cobra for single? Third one seems kinda useless to me.
Also from level 15 tier, which one you pick? Dire stable?

I prefer stampede for 100
Way of the cobra is the highest atm, but dire stable makes the whole spec flow better. Guess we will see later on when proper sims are out.

[Galaar]

Seems like BM is better than MM for current state of beta.
What talent you pick for level 100 - Stampede for AoE and Killer Cobra for single? Third one seems kinda useless to me.
Also from level 15 tier, which one you pick? Dire stable?

Aspect of the beast is pretty nice when soloing rare/quest mobs with a tenacity pet due to the damage reduction. In dungeons/raids though AotB loses its luster to Stampede and Cobra.

[Bladeweaver]

Not sure what was done recently but I've been finding it harder to hold aggro on elites when testing with mop raid content.

The other thing I realise is that with tranquil shot gone, there's no means for us to knock magic buffs off which pretty much blocks us from soloing encounters that have heal components. That's something I can live with I guess but pet threat is a concern

[Tannon]

Not sure what was done recently but I've been finding it harder to hold aggro on elites when testing with mop raid content.

The other thing I realise is that with tranquil shot gone, there's no means for us to knock magic buffs off which pretty much blocks us from soloing encounters that have heal components. That's something I can live with I guess but pet threat is a concern

Regarding soloing, BM has been pretty much "bent over" without as much as a /spit.

Along with Tranq being removed, MD does not reset anymore for pets (the glyph was removed), mend pet now has a cooldown, talents that increased healing = gone, talents that increased armor = gone, glyphs that removed curses = gone, glyphs that increased healing = gone, glyph of animal bond = gone, spirit bond = gone, pet threat seems a lot lower and pets feel like tissue paper compared to live. They have been gutted.

But hey, don't worry, we have an artifact talent that when maxed out at 3 points give our pet 6% dodge, so it should be fine now.

[Deleted]

Regarding soloing, BM has been pretty much "bent over" without as much as a /spit.

Along with Tranq being removed, MD does not reset anymore for pets (the glyph was removed), mend pet now has a cooldown, talents that increased healing = gone, talents that increased armor = gone, glyphs that removed curses = gone, glyphs that increased healing = gone, glyph of animal bond = gone, spirit bond = gone, pet threat seems a lot lower and pets feel like tissue paper compared to live. They have been gutted.

But hey, don't worry, we have an artifact talent that when maxed out at 3 points give our pet 6% dodge, so it should be fine now.

Well mend pet place 10 sec buff to pet so with CD or not doenst really mater you cannot stack it if you pump it nonstop
When you get fair amount of Ilv on your gear pet gets around 2 mln HP so having any glyph for heal just its pointless your pet will heals for more than will takes
MD for BM doenst really mater because you mostly generate aggro with your pet( i use it only for BARAAAAAAGEEEEE!!!)
What i really like to see is that trait from artefact who heals you for 15% of damage done from KC to be applyed to pet also or spirit mending pet ability to have iincreased effect when is used on the pet)

[Oldy]

Regarding soloing, BM has been pretty much "bent over" without as much as a /spit.

Along with Tranq being removed, MD does not reset anymore for pets (the glyph was removed), mend pet now has a cooldown, talents that increased healing = gone, talents that increased armor = gone, glyphs that removed curses = gone, glyphs that increased healing = gone, glyph of animal bond = gone, spirit bond = gone, pet threat seems a lot lower and pets feel like tissue paper compared to live. They have been gutted.

But hey, don't worry, we have an artifact talent that when maxed out at 3 points give our pet 6% dodge, so it should be fine now.

Totaly agree on this one. Pet on beta realy feals like tissue, when you pull few mobs u can barely keep him alive with mend/exilerate and when you try to kill elite or rare spawn it gets moled so hard i usualy have to res him few times untill mob is dead... It was never weak like this and it realy feals bad.

[Alvito]

dire beast whistle is annoying as hell too just make it a pet growl or something.

main issues I have with BM is that chimera is not baseline and most of the talents are passives like they said "how much can we do with the same base 3 abilities"

i find it more enjoyable than MM though.

Yeah I am going to delete the sound file if they don't change it be the time Legion goes live. You use it far too much now to have that noise going off constantly. Running with mutliple hunters is like walking past a cliche construction site.

[Tannon]

Well mend pet place 10 sec buff to pet so with CD or not doenst really mater you cannot stack it if you pump it nonstop
When you get fair amount of Ilv on your gear pet gets around 2 mln HP so having any glyph for heal just its pointless your pet will heals for more than will takes
MD for BM doenst really mater because you mostly generate aggro with your pet( i use it only for BARAAAAAAGEEEEE!!!)
What i really like to see is that trait from artefact who heals you for 15% of damage done from KC to be applyed to pet also or spirit mending pet ability to have iincreased effect when is used on the pet)

While I agree, it all depends on what you are soloing and how you play.

Sure what you've mentioned can certainly get you through soloing quests and dailies and maybe the odd elite, but Soloing for me does not only mean running around and doing these (Which MM really out performs BM anyways due to black arrow/dark minions talent)

For me it sometimes involves farming older (yet particularity hard at times) content in which raid bosses are immune to Taunts, or any kind of multiple adds, etc, the removal of MD Glyph very very much matters and is MASSIVE. I also two man farm with my friend on occasion for mounts he does not have, and I could keep a boss on my pet chaining MD's, but without it they'd be on him and he'd be mince.

The 'New" spirit bond now attached to your artifact may heal you, it does not heal your pet as the old version did. And until we gear up substantially more, it's heal still works out less then the prior. And even then, your stamina will have increased so the %heal from the old version rises too.

We could never stack mend pet but you could always refresh it, but now having to wait for it to fall off to then reuse just means that at times your pet is potentially not getting healed for a couple of seconds due to mechanic's/timing/or what have you. And those seconds can really count when your heal is so weak now and is all you have to try keep you pet up. Trust me sometimes a few seconds of healing can put your pet health back far enough to fall behind. It's like adding a cooldown to a druids rejuvenate that only finishes once it drops off, it's terrible idea for a heal.

I know they have alternates to some of the things they have removed, but they are all inferior/weaker versions of what we already have

And also as I said, many other things have been stripped back with no alternate

Tranq shot = gone, talents that increased healing = gone, talents that increased armor = gone, glyphs that removed curses = gone, glyphs that increased healing = gone, glyph of animal bond = gone

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Flavor-wise I really wanted to spec Dire Frenzy anyway - never liked the random dire beasts - so I'm very happy to hear DF is now as good or better than CS for dps. Not wishing away others' choices; I would have been content with comparable dps so we all had the choice. I'm not on any of the test servers (saving my Legion for live - like presents on Christmas morning ), but Killer Cobra/Kill Command spam sounds ferocious! I'll be excited to try that out.

I had about made my mind up to level as SV for the practice, picking up BM off-spec after SV artifact was maxed. Now I'm torn again. The buffs to BM make it sound like fun again!

[AthiestKitten]

Don't know if this is the right place to post this, have made reports and such.

On PTR, dire beast isn't reducing Bestial Wrath's CD by 35, only 15. Even when switching talents back and re-logging. Is it like this on beta and will it hopefully be addressed before the patch?