Legion: Elemental Specific

[Taeldorian]

Well then, I've bad news to you two. Artifact traits will fuck with you. And I dont mean the nice way.

What's with this misinformation? This is wrong.

PoTM can be set up really nice with other perks. Lining it up with stormkeeper and the 10% damage buff is great. It doesn't happen that often but when it does it feels great. Having the Lightning ele pop out for 8 seconds when you use SK is decent ST burst.

What exactly are you talking about? Our artifact abilities can line up pretty nicely with each other. The main one I dislike is the heal at a certain % of hp is pretty weak atm. Still though, no clue what you're talking about.

Edit: PoTM works great with Lightning bolt, clear focus and Stormkeeper. For example, a scenario to take advantage of is PoTM proc=use stormkeeper and have two stacks of clear focus (10% damage buff) which is a really nice amount of damage on lightning bolt or chain lightning. The other two golden dragon traits are passive, so there's nothing fucking with you there. Every other trait is pretty decent. Only ones that are under tuned are shamanistic healing and..well that's actually it.

[Deleted]

The same issues we were talking about the last 30 or so pages. Don't feel like repeating myself, but to each his own.

[Kralljin]

Tell me why. What's the issue?

As i said multiple times in this thread, Icefury + Stormkeeper stacks are sometimes very hard to dump them all.

Within 15 seconds you have to cast Lb three times and FrS 4 times, while it doesn't sound difficult at first, throw in some Lvb's along with Lava Surge procs and it gets more difficult.

Then some overloads which leave you Maelstrom capped, FrS doesn't dump enough Maelstrom if LB overloads twice times and Lvb once.

[garonne]

As i said multiple times in this thread, Icefury + Stormkeeper stacks are sometimes very hard to dump them all.

Within 15 seconds you have to cast Lb three times and FrS 4 times, while it doesn't sound difficult at first, throw in some Lvb's along with Lava Surge procs and it gets more difficult.

Then some overloads which leave you Maelstrom capped, FrS doesn't dump enough Maelstrom if LB overloads twice times and Lvb once.

not here to disagree with icefury having a higher uptime on the buff as it would be a welcome change, however, you shouldn't have to cast all 7 spells within a 15 secs window. stormkeeper being 1 min cd and basically making LB your hardest hitting ability if not the second is first priority (weaving in Lvb and earthshock), after that you can then use icefury and burst all your frost shocks. with the 30 sec cd on icefury, after the start of the fight (unless there's a break or wait period) overlapping shouldn't happen again which should booste dumping time (lb and fs) to 20-25 secs.

tl:dr stagger icefury after stomrkeeper at beginning of fight to prevent overlapping of duration and wasting procs.

[Kralljin]

stormkeeper being 1 min cd and basically making LB your hardest hitting ability if not the second is first priority (weaving in Lvb and earthshock)

LB still has the lowest priority until the point where you cannot get rid of all Stormkeeper stacks without spamming LB.

Whether i dump all Stormkeeper stacks right off the bat or spread them over 15 seconds matters not, if i don't use Lvb on CD or waste Maelstrom however matters a lot, because actually lose something.


Stormkeeper could boost LB damage by much more and this would still be true, the only time where it would be worth to spam LB /w Stormkeeper would be a situation where some kind of short time buff is about to run out and Lb /w Stormkeeper would beat Lvb by a lot.

Also, Lb /w Stormkeeper only beats Lvb in raw damage if PotM is up or if LB Crits, while both scenarios are not exactly uncommon, it's still better to stick the standard rotation even while stormkeeper is up.

Finally, ES is your hardest hitting ability.

To share some numbers from my character:

Lb ~50k
Lb /w Stormkeeper ~ 150k
Lvb ~220k
ES ~317k

LB /w Stormkeeper only beats ES if you Crit or get an Overload + PotM Overload.

Altough i am missing 3 points into earthen attunement, this might skewer things towards ES even further.

after that you can then use icefury and burst all your frost shocks. with the 30 sec cd on icefury, after the start of the fight (unless there's a break or wait period) overlapping shouldn't happen again which should booste dumping time (lb and fs) to 20-25 secs.

You want to use Icefury on CD, simply to maximize Maelstrom generation and to get as much boosted FrS as you can.

Delaying cooldowns is rarely a Dps gain, no matter if it's Lava Burst or a spell like Ascendance.

[garonne]

LB still has the lowest priority until the point where you cannot get rid of all Stormkeeper stacks without spamming LB.

Whether i dump all Stormkeeper stacks right off the bat or spread them over 15 seconds matters not, if i don't use Lvb on CD or waste Maelstrom however matters a lot, because actually lose something.


Stormkeeper could boost LB damage by much more and this would still be true, the only time where it would be worth to spam LB /w Stormkeeper would be a situation where some kind of short time buff is about to run out and Lb /w Stormkeeper would beat Lvb by a lot.

Also, Lb /w Stormkeeper only beats Lvb in raw damage if PotM is up or if LB Crits, while both scenarios are not exactly uncommon, it's still better to stick the standard rotation even while stormkeeper is up.

Finally, ES is your hardest hitting ability.

To share some numbers from my character:

Lb ~50k
Lb /w Stormkeeper ~ 150k
Lvb ~220k
ES ~317k

LB /w Stormkeeper only beats ES if you Crit or get an Overload + PotM Overload.

Altough i am missing 3 points into earthen attunement, this might skewer things towards ES even further.



You want to use Icefury on CD, simply to maximize Maelstrom generation and to get as much boosted FrS as you can.

Delaying cooldowns is rarely a Dps gain, no matter if it's Lava Burst or a spell like Ascendance.

i think you missed my point.

you shouldn't have to cast all 7 spells within a 15 secs window

you're right about earthshock and lvb hitting harder, however i did mention you had to weave them in anyway, so that doesnt change what i said.
and finally, you won't be using stormkeeper and icefury back to back, hence me saying they'll be staggered which increases the window to 20-25 secs.

i should point out again, im not against a higher buff duration because currently it sucks. just disagreeing with the one statement.

with ascendance, stormkeeper, icefury and potm all being 15 sec duration, if they were all up at the same time (which shouldn't happen) you'd just choose which has higher priority. in this situation it would be lvb ascendance then es when close to max without capping. this would basically make stormkeeper and icefury 0 damage and hence should just never be used during ascendance.

[FalcFalcFalc]

PoTM is 20 seconds which gives you a coupe extra GCDs to use IF frost shocks if you choose to talent that way.

[Hivey]

Nerd Question RE 'Path of Flame' (in T1 of talent tree)

Say for example there is a pack of 5 mobs.
Flame Shock + Lava Surge on "mob 1"
"mob 2" gets Flame Shock
If I tab and Flame Shock + Lave Surge "mob 3", is it random between the four other mobs who Flame Shock spreads to? Will "mob 1" be on this menu of possibilities? Or as it already has the debuff, will it be exempt?

[gambit998]

Well the thing about Icefury people are forgetting is this, Spells can be chained afterwards and during the spell duration. While moving, stop cast lightningbolt, chain a Frostshock afterwards and then still throw a lavasurge aswell. Granted it will be global hell but the fact is that people dont seem willing to change there playstyle much when using the talent. Granted the duration does need a slight buff, but otherwise i still think it is a very solid talent.

NB: (Need to move) Cast Icefury, (15 second buff of improved frostshocks.) cast 1st frost shock while moving into the next position. 4 frostshocks will have roughly have a1second global anyways so it isnt really spammable in the 1st place. Lavasurge has a 8 second duration.

So with the probability of this happening when the stars align, you will need to lavasurge after every Frostshock. therefore incuring 8 Global cooldowns. (+-8 seconds)

there is still 7 seconds of potential buff remaining even considering stopping and moving around to throw in Lightningbolts.

My point: It is just a small rotation change, it seems that people arnt willing to ajust to it.

I am not a theory crafter but that is the way it looks to me from a laymans point of view. (Expand on this if i am wrong)

Finally does someone have the current spell coefficients?

EG: Lightningbolt does X% of spell power, Flameshock does X% of spell power over its duration and X% immidiatly. (Just wanted to see something if someone has all these details.)

[Kralljin]

you won't be using stormkeeper and icefury back to back, hence me saying they'll be staggered which increases the window to 20-25 secs.

Would love to get some solid proof on why delaying Icefury should be a Dps Increase.

Because you lose out some Icefuries on average if you delay it, which is obviously a Dps loss.

And besides, unless you're specced into Ascendance, delaying Icefury for a Dps Gain is just bad design unless FrS should be only used during movement.

PoTM is 20 seconds which gives you a coupe extra GCDs to use IF frost shocks if you choose to talent that way.

The only point in tracking this Buff is for Maelstrom generation, PotM does not influence your priority list in any way.

[gambit998]

Um ascendacne and Icefury should not be taken together or atleast Icefury should not be cast during ascendance. It is the same concept of taking Icefury+Elemental Blast+Ascendance. Your rotation will be hell, and for what? small secondary stats that have to be put on everytime Ele blast is available, Rotational mobility with Frostshock that isnt even part of the ascendance buff. It is just a stuff up, things wuill need to be timed and encounters will have to be researched alot before hand to make this spec work.

I am not saying i will ever take all 3 at the same time but the point is this: Look at your playstyle. I run Elemental blast on live, i like the spell but i choose to take icefury come legion. i will most probably replace Ele Blast with Icefury just so my brain can wrap around the sudden loss of Elemental blast from my rotation. It ill depend on the fight and the numbers in the final pass.

[Hivey]

Elemental Fusion - the stealth mobility talent?
How many boss fights only have 1 target (boss)? There is almost always a big priority add or two up, or a group of weak adds or some shit going on. Spread the Flame Shock love and we should have enough instant cost procs to tide us over while avoiding hazards? Each one earns us 12 MS to be used on other instant cast options.

I've tested Path of Flame and Elemental Fusion together on a target dummy, which had another dummy nearby and the number of Lava Surge procs I was getting was fantastic. Two dots each with a 15% proc chance made it very regular, often back to back chains.

[Kralljin]

Um ascendacne and Icefury should not be taken together

There is no real alternative.

Right off the bat, Liquid Magma totem is no viable talent for Single target.

That leaves Lightning Rod and Ascendance.

Lightning Rod requires a talent build focused on spamming LB as much as possible to maximize Uptime and actual Dps Gain from it.

Icefury hinders this, you cast FrS far too often, lose uptime and if LR is up, actual Dps gain from LR.

Icefury hinders Lightning Rod by a lot.

Ascendance however, hinders Icefury only every 3 minutes, after that, you're free to go, no negative impact besides this.

The next issue however is, if you take Ascendance, EM wins by default, Icefury however favors Aftershock.

I like Icefury but the talent is about as random as EB and Earthen Rage, not terrible talents but lack interaction with other talents to be worth anything, despite Icefury having Aftershock, negative synergy with the lvl 100 tier kills it.

IF LR had a flat 100% uptime then *maybe* a LR build w/ Icefury would be viable, but as long as Icefury wrecks LR on both ends, it won't work.

[Deleted]

Not to fucking mention that the design intent of buttons buffing other buttons was removed with WoD, but somehow it's still okay for Elemental. First with UE and now with SK.

It is major bullshit and I simply don't know who designed this artifact in the first place. Skills, Traits and Talents which work AGAINST each other on top of being a fist weapon. You just can't do more harm to a single spec.

[Deleted]

There is 1 Legendary for Elemental that does 619(?) extra Lava Burst damage over 6 seconds, stacking upto 5 times. When this item was first revealed, i thought ''Oh numbers aren't final yet''. But the numbers are still the same. It it me, or does that number seem really low?

Also, what is going to be our best legendary?

[Kralljin]

There is 1 Legendary for Elemental that does 619(?) extra Lava Burst damage over 6 seconds, stacking upto 5 times. When this item was first revealed, i thought ''Oh numbers aren't final yet''. But the numbers are still the same. It it me, or does that number seem really low?

It scales with SP, on Beta the tooltip says 4k damage total per stack. (= 5 stacks deal ~20k Damage total)

Also, what is going to be our best legendary?

Probably boots but to be honest, that is the last of my worries concerning legendaries.

My sole concern is not to grab into the 26% shitbag and receive the neck / Hunter & Shaman Pants / CC Ring.

[Deleted]

Don't even think the healer pants are that bad, cc ring is shite.

I do think the chain lightning bracers can add up to some nice numbers on large add packs, especially when paired with the static overload artifact trait.

[freddy090909]

Don't even think the healer pants are that bad, cc ring is shite.

I do think the chain lightning bracers can add up to some nice numbers on large add packs, especially when paired with the static overload artifact trait.

The chain lightning bracers were completely gutted down to an only 5% (down from 50%) increase. That makes them only about a 10% increase against 5 targets - they are pretty bad now.

[chairmanmao]

Is EQ bad enough that the shoulders aren't a valid option?

[Kralljin]

Is EQ bad enough that the shoulders aren't a valid option?

If you get them, you'll take them.

"Option" is kinda the wrong word here, legendaries in Legion are basically working like "You eat what lands on your table", simply due the Ilvl the Legendary items will triumph over any other possible options, leaving some crazy Titanforged / mythic raid gear aside.

The shoulders aren't terrible, but it doesn't take indepth math to figure out that the Boots, in terms of effect, are better for ST.

The shoulders can shine in any 2 / 3 target Cleave situation, though.