1. #1

    Ret pala [echo of the Highlord]

    why is 1 of the mayor artifact traits so bad .
    i mean " Mimics Templar's Verdict and divine Storm, dealing 10% of normal damage."
    i don't even use them that much i use Execution Sentence and Justicar's Vengeance most of the time

    why not mimics a Holy power spender for 10-25% of the normal damage
    don't forget it's a finisher most of the damage we do comes from HolyPower builders

    only made this account for this post been playing pala for 9.5 years now its just aint feeling right to not make a post about this .

    also the "healing storm" trait why is it in the ashbringer tree,
    it heals for what 30-40k ppl got 1500K HP on item lvl 810-820
    1800k HP on item lvl 840-850

    seems a tiny bit under scaled no?

    this might be seen as a hate post but its not only this is bothering the hell out of me.
    i love where pala is heading only this and the removal of hammer of wrath is making me wanne change classes

    why hammer of wrath u ask
    No opener burst "[wings enables hammer]" also no execute phase i feel like a dodo repeating that 1 rotation in a dungeon/raid

    i wonder of more palas feel like this since there is almost no 1 active on the ret pala forums
    Last edited by geckomoria; 2016-07-01 at 07:40 PM. Reason: Typo

  2. #2
    Echo of the Highlord is similar to what our master is on live, a certain percentage of TV/DS/CS is done as holy damage. I don't know if said mastery changes at all since I don't have the ptr or beta. Healing Storm is something Divine Storm used to do, can do on live, albeit it glyphed and only to yourself. Numbers might need fixing, but it was never meant to be a massive heal anyways.

    As far as Hammer of Wrath, Execute phase and Wings opener. I'm indifferent about it. We lose burst, sure, but I can't really comment how it plays out on the beta/ptr.
    "May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

    "May the Goddess smile upon you."

    "Hero", is what they've all been saying. This world, it isn't worth the saving."

  3. #3
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Our mastery in Legion is connected to our Judgement, basically increases the damage done by Judgement and increases the damage done by spenders.
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  4. #4
    Hrm, that doesn't sound too terrible, I guess. So they basically took our mastery in WoD and baked it into a trait. Meh.
    "May the way of the Hero lead to the Triforce"

    "May the Goddess smile upon you."

    "Hero", is what they've all been saying. This world, it isn't worth the saving."

  5. #5
    why is 1 of the mayor artifact traits so bad .
    i mean " Mimics Templar's Verdict and divine Storm, dealing 10% of normal damage."
    i don't even use them that much i use Execution Sentence and Justicar's Vengeance most of the time
    Final Verdict and actually using Templar's Verdict is more single target damage than Justicar's Vengeance and Execution Sentence. If you mean for PvP why are you using Execution Sentence? If memory serves it can be dispelled.

    why not mimics a Holy power spender for 10-25% of the normal damage
    don't forget it's a finisher most of the damage we do comes from HolyPower builders
    I agree it should count for all finishers. But that 2nd statement is so wrong. Most of your damage should easily be coming from your Finishers.

  6. #6
    HoW used to be special and hit like a truck back in Vanilla, because it was the only reliable hard hitting ability (SoC was a truck too, but it was random). But after that it became just yet another button you press. Since Cata or MoP, I stopped caring about HoW at all, because during Wings + Holy Avenger global cooldowns were better spent on TV, rather than HoW and still is.
    As for healing and mimic damage: it doesn't change much from where we are now. It just adds flavour. Albeit, feels weird knowing that we had this as our own power, but now we lose it and the weapon has to give it to us. Weird in a class role fantasy sense, but doesn't matter in the game mechanics sense.

  7. #7
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Hammer of Wrath became as you say "Just another button to press"

    The reason that was because of sanctified Wrath+ Haste reducing the CD making you throw hammers like no tomorrow. Of course Blizzard swung the pendulum too far this time. Exorcism is gone, HoW gone(This I understand, Exorcism I do not). Could of scrapped Sanctified Wrath's affect but WHATEVER.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    I agree it should count for all finishers. But that 2nd statement is so wrong. Most of your damage should easily be coming from your Finishers.
    over 60% of my dam comes from zeal , wake of ashes , blade of justice and judgment
    maybe on more gear it wont but i am speaking on a item lvl of 820
    Last edited by geckomoria; 2016-07-01 at 08:34 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by geckomoria View Post
    over 60% of my dam comes from zeal , wake of ashes , blade of justice and judgment
    maybe on more gear it wont but i am speaking on a item lvl of 820
    You're also using Justicar's Vengeance with Execution Sentence. Fires of Justice + Final Verdict (I believe) is the highest output for single target.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    Hammer of Wrath became as you say "Just another button to press"

    The reason that was because of sanctified Wrath+ Haste reducing the CD making you throw hammers like no tomorrow. Of course Blizzard swung the pendulum too far this time. Exorcism is gone, HoW gone(This I understand, Exorcism I do not). Could of scrapped Sanctified Wrath's affect but WHATEVER.
    Was it you who said they removed Exorcism in an expansion primarily focused on demons where exorcisms fantasy is actually further evolved and actually fits? Not sure if it was you but for some reason I feel like it was, either way I agree. No idea why they removed Exo in an expansion revolving around a demon invasion.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    Final Verdict and actually using Templar's Verdict is more single target damage than Justicar's Vengeance and Execution Sentence.
    If Echo of Highlord affected all finishers, would that still be true?
    If you mean for PvP why are you using Execution Sentence? If memory serves it can be dispelled.
    Yes it can be dispelled, but that's not the problem. Execution sentence has a PvP penalty which makes it barely better than TV with Final Verdict.

    ------------------

    I don't miss HoW or Exorcism at all. I was around in beta/vanilla before HoW existed and while it was nice back then, it's not really needed anymore. Constantly throwing HoW made Ret feel more like a spellcaster than a paladin and with many other changes through the years, we don't really need a ranged execute. I never liked the random Exorcism procs ever since it was changed to work on everything (not just undead/demons). It was just a proc to spam if we had nothing else and seemed to get in the way of other things a lot.

  12. #12
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    The only reason spamming Hammer of Wrath was a thing was because of Sanctified Wrath+ Haste making it so. There was nothing wrong with Exorcism, Paladins are a mix of spellcaster and melee so there will be small spellcasting elements. That's not surprising. We can't be 100% melee, just doesn't work that way. Hell even our new ability Blade of Justice can be cast or whatnot at range( Lol)
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    You're also using Justicar's Vengeance with Execution Sentence. Fires of Justice + Final Verdict (I believe) is the highest output for single target.
    but JV is so much better for questing and I'm fairly sure will pull out better damage against stunable targets

    I still feel that JV should replace tv though or something like that

  14. #14
    Warchief Teleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex wolf View Post
    but JV is so much better for questing and I'm fairly sure will pull out better damage against stunable targets
    JV is best used in these situations:

    1. On stunned targets
    2. With a Divine Purpose proc
    3. When you need healing
    4. When the higher burst from it will finish the fight quicker

    In terms of actual DPS, Templar's Verdict is superior.

  15. #15
    Pandaren Monk Demsi's Avatar
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    if you're spending your holy power on JV and ES, you're doing it wrong, TV is much more efficient in terms of per holy power, getting 3 TV's in a single Judgement gives the highest dps, rather than a single JV.

    There are exceptions though, if the target is stunned JV pulls ahead, if you get a Divine purpose proc, consume it with JV.

    Other than that, TV gives better dps

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    JV is best used in these situations:

    1. On stunned targets
    2. With a Divine Purpose proc
    3. When you need healing
    4. When the higher burst from it will finish the fight quicker

    In terms of actual DPS, Templar's Verdict is superior.
    and 5. - when target does not have absorb effect

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    and 5. - when target does not have absorb effect
    And 6 - When the target isn't at low health as overkill damage doesn't translate into healing.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Teleros View Post
    JV is best used in these situations:

    1. On stunned targets
    2. With a Divine Purpose proc
    3. When you need healing
    4. When the higher burst from it will finish the fight quicker

    In terms of actual DPS, Templar's Verdict is superior.
    There is also building the first 10 Crusade stacks (JV, WoA, JV).

    Quote Originally Posted by Storm the Sorrow View Post
    and 5. - when target does not have absorb effect
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt0193 View Post
    And 6 - When the target isn't at low health as overkill damage doesn't translate into healing.
    These two only diminish the usefulness of JV when used for healing. In the other situations (for example, a shielded, but stunned target) you'll still want to use it. It's not like we're listing "being at full health" as a reason not to use it.

    For the record, yes, I think at least absorb damage should translate fully into a heal. Overkilling is trickier since using JV on a critter or low level mob would hit for crazy damage and healing. Against similar level targets, sure.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Alindra View Post
    For the record, yes, I think at least absorb damage should translate fully into a heal. Overkilling is trickier since using JV on a critter or low level mob would hit for crazy damage and healing. Against similar level targets, sure.
    Sure, the damage component won't be affected but it's core function, that being the heal component as it's on the Heal/Survival row, is diminished due to sloppy design. The solution to that is make Critters in BI 100+. If necessary, extend that to cover all critters in all zones. If a talent has a glaring issue and it can't be fixed because of a redundant mechanic (Critters being one-shottable and low level), it's better to get rid of the redundant mechanic rather than screw over actual gameplay in the long run.

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