BREXIT - leave or remain?

[Velerios]

When do people realize that Farage NEVER WANTED winning the vote, as we see it now that he's been glued to his fine EU-Parliament-Seat. He wanted to LOSE, so that he can remain relevant. Winning the brexit was his los. Instead he could remain complaining and stay relevant. Now that they won the vote, they lost their bet. If they lost, they could play the martyr and stay relevant with UKIP.

They lied, they divided the country and now that they lost, they are leaving the sinking ship.

[Rockyreg]

Have a vague idea of what's next?
I mean I can campaign for Earth's population to be migrated to Mars, but once we are there there will be 7 billion people angrily looking at me for about a minute before they all suffocate because I couldn't be arsed to do something about the atmosphere.

I would've preferred a response grounded in some sort of reality. Considering his current position and the make-up of the UK political system what would you have expected him to do from here?

[Noradin]

Correct, it wasn't until the EU was converted into the EU in 1992 (against the will of the people of the UK) that everything went downhill. If it was still the EEC the would never have been a Brexit.

If it was supposedly against the will of the people of the UK why where the elected representatives of the people of the UK pushing for it so hard?
Allengendly the UK is supposed to be a democracy...

[ati87]

What a bunch of brave men Boris and Nigel are taking responsibility for the shitstorm they caused
(not)

Cameron checkmated them so hard

Yea...it's over for cameron.

I expect him to follow Bush and start taking up a hobby like painting or something.

He will never have a political position again and who would hire him for his influence at this point.

[caervek]

If it was supposedly against the will of the people of the UK why where the elected representatives of the people of the UK pushing for it so hard?
Allengendly the UK is supposed to be a democracy...

The same reason they invaded Iraq when the public were against it, they don't give a **** about the people.

[Noradin]

The same reason they invaded Iraq when the public were against it, they don't give a **** about the people.

So they aren't a democracy then is what you say?
Could you please present us your evidence? We could use that to get rid of them since one of the requirements to become a member state is being a democracy.

[Rockyreg]

When do people realize that Farage NEVER WANTED winning the vote, as we see it now that he's been glued to his fine EU-Parliament-Seat. He wanted to LOSE, so that he can remain relevant. Winning the brexit was his los. Instead he could remain complaining and stay relevant. Now that they won the vote, they lost their bet. If they lost, they could play the martyr and stay relevant with UKIP.

They lied, they divided the country and now that they lost, they are leaving the sinking ship.

If 'relevancy' was what he is after I would have thought after around 15 years of UKIP being completely irrelevant he would have given up way before then. Like I said I'm not a fan of his but anybody questioning his motivations like this are incorrect.

[Tinch]

I don't know the exact numbers, but the vote was 52%-48%. If 7% of leave and 5% of remain voters switched that would be a 2% swing to 50%-50%. And if 5% of leave voters and 2% of remain voters switched that would be a 3% swing, so 49%-51%...

No you're counting the percentage of the total vote. It would be 5% of 17 million odd vs. 2% of 16 million odd, leaving a swing in favour of leave of a few hundred thousand votes still.

[Deleted]

I don't know the exact numbers, but the vote was 52%-48%. If 7% of leave and 5% of remain voters switched that would be a 2% swing to 50%-50%. And if 5% of leave voters and 2% of remain voters switched that would be a 3% swing, so 49%-51%...

thats not how it works. % are not finite numbers. you didnt even consider the overall voting numbers

[Kalis]

So they aren't a democracy then is what you say?
Could you please present us your evidence? We could use that to get rid of them since one of the requirements to become a member state is being a democracy.

The UK is a Parliamentary Democracy, which is a type of democracy and also means that sometimes Parliament acts against public opinion.

However this thread is about Brexit and Westminster has never acted against the results of a referendum, the public being against the Iraq invasion was only ever based on polling.

[Deleted]

Seems like at least one law firm has started procedures to try and prevent Brexit using that argument.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-br...KCN0ZK0HX?il=0

I thought it was quite clear from the outset that the referendum wasn't binding. I'm pretty sure any constitutional change will require a vote in the Commons. The question is, will that vote require a majority or a super-majority? I'm pretty sure it will be the latter. It is unlikely a bare majority will be enough to win, which begs the question why was the Referendum held on this basis?

This whole thing really wasn't thought out very well.

[caervek]

the public being against the Iraq invasion was only ever based on polling.

That and the largest public demonstrations/protests in our nation's entire history :P

[Rockyreg]

Andrea Leadsom, Tory leadership outsider, recons Farage shouldn't be ruled out of a seat at the negotiating table.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7117341.html

I'm of the mind that the sooner Farage fucks right off the better.

Well if thats her view lets hope she gets nowhere near the Tory leadership. Thats all we need, Farage sitting round the table gloating when trying to negotiate a good deal for us.

I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding Farage.

[Deleted]

The same reason they invaded Iraq when the public were against it, they don't give a **** about the people.

That is factually incorrect. Polling from before the war tells us that a large majority supported it. It wasn't until long after the invasion that popular opinion swung.

[Rockyreg]

I thought it was quite clear from the outset that the referendum wasn't binding. I'm pretty sure any constitutional change will require a vote in the Commons. The question is, will that vote require a majority or a super-majority? I'm pretty sure it will be the latter. It is unlikely a bare majority will be enough to win, which begs the question why was the Referendum held on this basis?

This whole thing really wasn't thought out very well.

Stupidly they thought the result was a foregone conclusion, I mean what could possibly go wrong? Finally giving a voice to 2 generations whose opinions have been ignored for the last 25 years, broken promises regarding referendums etc. I mean who could possibly foresee how this would turn out?!!

[Cosmic Janitor]

The UK is a Parliamentary Democracy, which is a type of democracy and also means that sometimes Parliament acts against public opinion.

However this thread is about Brexit and Westminster has never acted against the results of a referendum, the public being against the Iraq invasion was only ever based on polling.

The staggering sample size of 3 referendums in it's entire history, including the latest makes this good point I guess...
The topics so far were (according to Wikipedia):
1. (1975) Join the EEC (Yes)
2. (2011) Change the voting system for MPs (No)
3. (2016) Brexit (Out)

[Kalis]

The staggering sample size of 3 referendums in it's entire history, including the latest makes this good point I guess...
The topics so far were (according to Wikipedia):
1. (1975) Join the EEC (Yes)
2. (2011) Change the voting system for MPs (No)
3. (2016) Brexit (Out)

We have also had referendums in Scotland carried out under the authority of Westminster.


Edit: Apparently we have had 11.

[caervek]

That is factually incorrect. Polling from before the war tells us that a large majority supported it. It wasn't until long after the invasion that popular opinion swung.

No, that's wrong, public opinion was against the war in Iraq from day one, most people saw that Bush was full of ****, hell even our intelligence services said so and our media leaked it. That's why millions of people took to the streets of London in the biggest protests in UK history.

In the UK, an opinion poll in the Times newspaper this week found that 51% of those questioned saw Tony Blair as a US poodle - although 47% trusted him to do the right thing. An overwhelming 86% wanted more time for weapons inspections, and only 25% thought enough evidence had been found to justify a war.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2747175.stm


------

On the plus side the Iraq report will be our any day and some MP's have already said they will impeach Blair if it's as damning as people expect.

[GennGreymane]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...itical-turmoil

What is with your exit people and quitting... did they really think that there was no work to be done after?


Gotta say though, gotta love the UK on fire during the 4th.

[Deleted]

No, that's wrong, public opinion was against the war in Iraq from day one, most people saw that Bush was full of ****, hell even our intelligence services said so and our media leaked it. That's why millions of people took to the streets of London in the biggest protests in UK history.

On the plus side the Iraq report will be our any day and some MP's have already said they will impeach Blair if it's as damning as people expect.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/06/03/remembering-iraq/