So i tried retri on ptr and fu***** sucks

[Deleted]

Storm.

Paladins Literally have the same damage on most of their abilites that Arms warriors do, Arguably because of Templar's verdict, even without judgement they can reliably do more contestant damage per GCD until the execute phase.

Ret also has the added luck of their "Colossus smash" window fitting perfectly into their DPS windows and not being awkward due to cooldowns like Colossus smash. Judgement arguable can also be up more often.

They also provide much more CC than Arms warriors and that Utility you balked at is still better than an Arms warrior.

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Not sure if troll or serious...
But i did lol a bit at those things ret does no damage outside of window, ret has absolutely no utility and healing in legion is pretty much at 0
When i am bored i can always come to paladin forum and check some posts about ret from people like reghame or stuff like this one.
Tho reghame posts are infinitely more ridiculous and "wtf?" worthy, so you will have to try a bit harder

It's like you people literally do not read your own fucking talent choices.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Storm.

Paladins Literally have the same damage on most of their abilites that Arms warriors do

yeah, hold on a second I'll find my analogue to warrior' 1kk damaging Mortal Strikes

They also provide much more CC than Arms warriors and that Utility you balked at is still better than an Arms warrior.
.

much more CC.
Feth.
You are really entertaining.

Utility that is shared between all 3 specs where 2 other specs have more and more useful, the likes of HoSac or HoNegation.
And I don't remember ever caring about warrior utility.

It's like you people literally do not read your own fucking talent choices.

Keep it coming

[Deleted]

Yup, it's terrible. Same rotation for AoE and single target, AoE that doesn't scale with mastery, no interesting abilities from talents (mostly just cooldown changes on existing ones), artifact weapon traits are incredibly sad aswell and a judgement mechanic that wants you to pool that fights the HP mechanic that wants you to spend, greater blessings for the DPS vampire that paladins are wich don't even work right, and our favorite equality/holy wrath ofc, because it's all around so much "fun" and useful..

It's a complete disaster and a huge step back from WoD. I would fire whoever was responsible for this. It makes the ashbringer look like the biggest joke in WoW.

[Morally Grey Storm]

I would not call ret a better version of arms

because it's not "better".
It's worse.

If they want us to play like armswarriors(hence Colossus Judgement of Smash of Lothar mechanic), why they don't give us warrior's levels of mobility so we could utilize it?
Contradiction ?
No. Just fail design.
Which is not something Rets aren't used to sadly.

[Deleted]

yeah, hold on a second I'll find my analogue to warrior' 1kk damaging Mortal Strikes
much more CC.
Feth.
You are really entertaining.

Utility that is shared between all 3 specs where 2 other specs have more and more useful, the likes of HoSac or HoNegation.
And I don't remember ever caring about warrior utility.

Keep it coming

Mortal Strike - 350% damage 6 second cooldown - costs 25 rage
Blade of Justice - 340% Damage 8 Second cooldown - generates 2 holy power
Templar's Verdict - 390% HOLY damage costs 3 Holy power

So we have one Ability that hits close to mortal Strike damage that we can use arguably more often. And one Ability we use when in our Judgement window that hits HARDER than Mortal Strike, but use less often.

Slam also hits the same as Crusader Strike unless you take Zeal, then Zeal pulls out ahead dramatically.

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because it's not "better".
It's worse.

If they want us to play like armswarriors(hence Colossus Judgement of Smash of Lothar mechanic), why they don't give us warrior's levels of mobility so we could utilize it?
Contradiction ?
No. Just fail design.
Which is not something Rets aren't used to sadly.

Ah so we get to the crux of the situation.

"Waaaaah I don't have charge and Heroic Leap"

Who needs them when Ret paladins have like 70% uptime of a 70% slow in PvP?

[Morally Grey Storm]

Mortal Strike - 350% damage 6 second cooldown - costs 25 rage
Blade of Justice - 340% Damage 8 Second cooldown - generates 2 holy power
Templar's Verdict - 390% HOLY damage costs 3 Holy power

So we have one Ability that hits close to mortal Strike damage that we can use arguably more often. And one Ability we use when in our Judgement window that hits HARDER than Mortal Strike, but use less often.

MS has lower cd than BoJ
says we can use BoJ "more often".
Logic , where art thou.

Also, you somehow forgot to mention stacking MS buff .
One would wonder why.

Ah so we get to the crux of the situation.

"Waaaaah I don't have charge and Heroic Leap"

You went full retard.
Everyone knows you never go full retard.

Who needs them when Ret paladins have like 70% uptime of a 70% slow in PvP?

30 sec cd 10 sec duration, dispellable slow
>says 70% uptime
Logic, come deliver us.

[Deleted]

Respectfully, this is... inaccurate, to say the least. While there are passive Artifact Traits, the first golden dragon trait everyone will be going for makes Wake of Ashes hit incredibly hard and generate an instant 5 Holy Power. The Divine Tempest perk is minor from a gameplay perspective sure, biggest change there is making sure you don't shoot it into the next unpulled mob pack. I'm not particularly fond of Echo of the Highlord, seems underwhelming and I don't like the random floating Ashbringer. But Ashes to Ashes makes our rotation and overall dps feel much better.

The only thing I can figure you mean by "ramp up time" is the initial build up of HP at the beginning of a fight before your first Judgement, which can be done in a single global. Also, WoA does a nice job of breaking up the rotation by essentially giving you an A-B-A-B style of rotational phases; one which utilizes WoA to refill HP after you initially dump into a Judgment window, and one without the refill, and they more or less alternate.

The talent issue you're talking about is very much just the design goal that Blizzard has taken this entire expansion into- this isn't a Ret only thing. They want talent choices to matter, and the only way to do that is to have different talents shine in different areas. If they all do the same thing, (most) everyone will follow a forum post or SimCraft parse and just pick the highest dps.

If you want the option to swap talents, just keep a stock of the new tomes, the option is completely available to you. You can also mix and match single target and aoe talent choices for an all-around setup. Sure, you're not as strong in purely aoe or purely single target situations as you could be, but you can strike a balance and be a "jack of all trades" with quite a few build choices.

And, finally, PvP-- melee aren't designed to be on top of ranged 24/7, but between Blessing of Freedom, Blessing of Protection, Divine Shield, Hand of Hindrance, Hammer of Justice, Repentance, Divine Steed, and/or Seal of Light, we're far from immobile. We might not be the most mobile class, but we're not meant to be, nor do we need to be. I'm not sure why you think we don't have Blessing of Freedom or Blessing of Protection, though, because we absolutely do.

Hope this helps clear up any confusion, let me know if you have any other questions!

That is not the point. In WoD, i fealt like semi melee/range class and love it.
Now i feel like a warrior, just with different animations.
I felt the synergy between abilities. Cast final verdict and you have options either cast divine storm if they are mobs around or wait for free divine storm to proc.
Now it is just spam buttons, to gather holy power, no suprise waiting for me. In wod i have you had this element of suprise which i loved.
On top of that animations for the new abilities are lame.

[Cwimge]

You should try it at 110. Its actually quite good.
Idk what the hate is for this spec, but every Ret I play with in dungeons especially are doing very nice aoe and burst on bosses.
In raids they are strong. Maybe a bit weak on single target, but they bring some very cool utility.

because nobody wants utility. single target burst and sustain is worth more to players then raid buffs and CD's that are getting stripped out. There's also the whole thing where you have a buff, for another player, that is a huge chunk of your damage

[namecraft]

I tried WoW but I fu**** suck :'(

[Deleted]

did OP play with an artifact weapon with all traits unlocked?

I didn't because i do not have access to the beta, but that beside the point. When wod pre patch launched i like the spec, here i cannot find a single thing i like about it.

[Morally Grey Storm]

What you said makes no sense. Why would we get a warrior's mobility because of a vaguely similar playstyle?

You just answered your own question - because we need any decent mobility to ensure being able to , well, do damage.
I'm not saying we need exactly warrior mobility, mind.

What I'm saying is, Bzz themselves said UHDKs and Ret are to be low mobility specs this expansion.
So, why Ret "low mobility" is infinitely inferior to UHDK "low mobility" ?
We need to be buffed mobility-wise to UHDK levels to consider our mobility "low".
AS is now, it's not low.
It's negative.
All you have is "W" button.

you . . .don't have law and order?

you... posess an magical ability to somehow always be within 12 yards of your target in PvP to benefit from L&O ?

Mortal strike requires rage, blade of justice (or blade of wrath, on a shorter CD) do not and a small range instead of being just melee.

12 yards is a world of difference now?
Also warriors having issues generating rage?
Don't strawman please.

You are about one post from being dismissed as someone who baselessly whines.

you are one post away from being dismissed as a clueless debater for the sake of debating.

[Aerknard]

Mortal Strike - 350% damage 6 second cooldown - costs 25 rage
Blade of Justice - 340% Damage 8 Second cooldown - generates 2 holy power
Templar's Verdict - 390% HOLY damage costs 3 Holy power

So we have one Ability that hits close to mortal Strike damage that we can use arguably more often. And one Ability we use when in our Judgement window that hits HARDER than Mortal Strike, but use less often.

Slam also hits the same as Crusader Strike unless you take Zeal, then Zeal pulls out ahead dramatically.

Overpower 375% Weapon damage and can't be blocked, dodged, parried vs blade of justice only 10 rage
Execute 175% with additional 30 rage for 3000*175% vs hammer of wrath.
Oh wait we lost Hammer of Wrath without any compensation.
Rend 5 + 600% damage for 10 rage

So we have one Ability that hits close to Templar Verdict damage that we can use arguably more often. And one Ability we use when in our Collosus Smash window that hits HARDER than Templar Verdict which is ret paladin 3rd hardest hitting ability, but use less often and consume only 10 rage which much, much easier to use

Ah so we get to the crux of the situation.

"Waaaaah I don't have charge and Heroic Leap"

Who needs them when Ret paladins have like 70% uptime of a 70% slow in PvP?

Hamstring 10 rage for 50% slow with 100% uptime cooldown 1 sec.
May be what you mean is:

Waaaaah... I don't want to lose my Free Kill, Free Spot in arena/bg/raid.

Oh, before I forget. it's not 70% and even 70% uptime it can be dispelled. Even if not dispelled, 10 sec doesn't mean a thing If you are slowed too.

[Morally Grey Storm]

For the sake of arguement, here's a video by a slightly famous Paladin Savix, regarding Ret PvP mobility.
70% uptime slow, yeah right

[Aerknard]

What you said makes no sense. Why would we get a warrior's mobility because of a vaguely similar playstyle? While there might be a connection between short burst windows and good mobility (which I don't consider good design; if your burst windows are short and you have solid mobility that means you can easily move outside those windows when your sustain is low; it is synergistic when movement in combat should be disruptive instead) we do not even have small burst windows, we just need to make sure not to be casting spenders 2 out of 8 globals.

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Mortal strike requires rage, blade of justice (or blade of wrath, on a shorter CD) do not and a small range instead of being just melee.

you . . .don't have law and order?

You are about one post from being dismissed as someone who senselessly whines.

rage and gap can be easily acquired and closed via charge. while Ret doesn't have a single range talent to acquire holy power and boj/bow only 12 yard.
Oh, don't argue about divine punisher because Lawbringer is much preferable. Law and order only in pvp, once again not 100% uptime.

Positive is a good thing, but negative is there to remind us.
But in ret case, it's hard to stay positive. Because to much hole that dev left open to argue

[Deleted]

For the sake of arguement, here's a video by a slightly famous Paladin Savix, regarding Ret PvP mobility.
70% uptime slow, yeah right

jesus....

Blizzard fucked up big time....

[Wi1kie]

Oh wait we lost Hammer of Wrath without any compensation.

Makes me sad... There's not much better than jumping, spin 180 and throw a cheeky hammer to finish off a mob

I'll really miss having an execute and the current live synergy with Avenging Wrath windows, but at least we kind of keep the animation with the new Judgement!

[Aleksej89]

I did not expect Ret to get so many changes, it felt fine on WoD.

On the other side i was shocked that Cat druids got almost no changes - that spec always felt like overbloated trash.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Why would you need high uptime snares in PvE anyway? .

why supposedly low-mobility spec that is UHDK can have constant uptime on Chains of Ice(which are undispellable mind you) on top of having baseline DG and WraithWalk?

Arent Ret and UH supposed to be low mobility?
Right?
Why our "low" is lower?

[Aerknard]

For the sake of arguement, here's a video by a slightly famous Paladin Savix, regarding Ret PvP mobility.
70% uptime slow, yeah right

Snail with wings and ashbringer = Legion Ret Paladin

[Sorshen]

Feels really clunky to me; if I want this kind of gameplay I'll log on my Arms warrior. That actually has mobility.