[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Teleros]

Have seals gone?

Yes.

If you use Holy Wrath at full health, does it do no damage at all?

I assume so.

What talents are most people going to take at 110?

We've no idea, as balancing hasn't finished.

[Deleted]

*Have seals gone?

Yes

*If you use Holy Wrath at full health, does it do no damage at all?

yep 2*(HPmax-(HPmax-HPcur))=0

*What talents are most people going to take at 110? I'm going with the below (swapping out GJ@30 with any of the other two and switching to VB@60 if we want to stack Crit):

only real decisions are FV or ES, judge row, Blade row and DP or Crusade
I would go with FV, tFoJ, HD and DP
for survival with DI (question is derpony) and JV

but this is still changing every week so take this as this weeks build

[Celebhil]

When people ask why "holy wrath" exists in legion, just look at WoD talents that we got. empowered seals aka juggling hell, seraphim (inquisition 2.0), and final verdict, which in hindsight now shows us, we should have had a hard hitting finisher to begin with (n the form of holy dmg). Why do we have a shitty talent? because blizzard has continuously been really lazy at making interesting talent choices for paladins.

[Demsi]

When people ask why "holy wrath" exists in legion, just look at WoD talents that we got. empowered seals aka juggling hell, seraphim (inquisition 2.0), and final verdict, which in hindsight now shows us, we should have had a hard hitting finisher to begin with (n the form of holy dmg). Why do we have a shitty talent? because blizzard has continuously been really lazy at making interesting talent choices for paladins.

Seraphim was nothing like inquisition, it was much more impactfull, and had a CD, wich means you dont need a 100% uptime on it. Plus it had a sweet animation

[Deleted]

Seraphim was nothing like inquisition, it was much more impactfull, and had a CD, wich means you dont need a 100% uptime on it. Plus it had a sweet animation

which has gone straight to Prot just like the guardian animation. And talking about good animations the hammer ground effect is now holy only. while ret still has the 2005 wings yeah...

"But you got WoA!" you see shit of it when there are 2 or more mobs and even casting at on plain grass is underwhelming...

[Ashelorh]

Although I agree about animations, I don't think that those are our urgent problems.
While our Unholy and Frost DK brothers got another blue post about buffing their damage and eliminating certain mechanical bugs, where is our bluepost regarding our real lackluster utility aka Greater Blessings? They don't work properly and their utility overall is questionable. How can we be a supporter class without any meaningful support? What about SoV still on gcd? And the cd of the ability itself?
So many questions and still no answers.

Yeah, I know animations are the least of our worries, but honestly, at this point, I don't think we're gonna see anything but number changes. Less than 2 months to legion, they haven't communicated with us after 90 pages of feedback, they're not gonna start now.

[Aerknard]

Yeah, I know animations are the least of our worries, but honestly, at this point, I don't think we're gonna see anything but number changes. Less than 2 months to legion, they haven't communicated with us after 90 pages of feedback, they're not gonna start now.

I so hope they start instead of leave it in the dust.

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regarding sword of light, I think it would be much better if the dev add "Increase your spell power by and amount of 75%" of your attack power or
"Your spell power is equal to 100% of your spell power" instead of only flat 5% increase damage dealt by 2 handed weapon.
(I'm not using x% because the x can be only 5% too.)

[Deleted]

Yeah, a statement from Blizzard regarding their intended design goal for Retribution would be nice to have. Their earlier preview of the spec is now totally outdated.

But even if they didn't respond much, besides to some questions in the theorycraft thread and the famous equality clash, they listened to feedback.

Divine Purpose was brought back because some wanted a proc mechanic.
Wake of ashes and ashes to ashes were implemented/reworked because many disliked shooting little Ashbringer missiles while using Judgment.
The CDs of TFoJ, BoJ, BoW and Divine Hammer were changed several times due to feedback.

Well they still haven't done something to the "lesser" problems of the spec (Greater Blessings, missing utility and mobility)

But saying that they leave the spec in the dust isn't true at all.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Yeah, a statement from Blizzard regarding their intended design goal for Retribution would be nice to have. Their earlier preview of the spec is now totally outdated.

But there already was one, where they cleary stated how they see Ret.
There, they carefully explained that Ret is to be support dps, with supports, utilities, and off healing.
Also, we counter mages nao.

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But saying that they leave the spec in the dust isn't true at all.

Indeed it is untrue, as they bestowed us with the "W" button.

[Deleted]

Indeed it is untrue, as they bestowed us with the "W" button.

"W" is love. "W" is life. "W" is our salvation. All Hail the "W" for he is our lord!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Pressing W is our mobility. THE KING OF ALL THINGS



Plz bring back Pursuit of Justice

[Morally Grey Storm]

Game of Snares: A Target Practice
Game of Snares: A Storm of Impotency
Game of Snares: A Feast of Mages
Game of Snares: A Clash of Head Against Desk
Game of Snares: A Dance Out of Range

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House Retribution: We Don't Even

[ruiizu]

blizzard has stated in the past that having mechanics like this is bad. One of these things was indeed seal of blood. things like life tap are also not as mandatory to warlocks as they once were for the same reason, the same reason why warriors dont gain rage for being hit and take damage. Having players take damage to deal damage has always been used to such extremes that it caused issues in the past. this also why most people dislike equality.

You say that but Warriors actually got their original "fantasy" returned in that regard. Fury takes 30% more damage while enraged, and that's their base mechanic. Same essentially as Seal of Blood (dealing damage is a risk).

[Deleted]

correct me if I am wrong but we had an ability called "seal of blood" in the past which added additional holy damage to all melee attacks, but the paladin lost health equal to 10% total of the damage inflicted. So it is not that far fetched tbh!

You were losing a moderate amount of health, which was topped up in a panic-less manner by healers. It wasn't stabbing yourself in the stomach and bleeding all over the boss.

[Teleros]

You were losing a moderate amount of health, which was topped up in a panic-less manner by healers.

And by ourselves (Sacred Shield + FoL) don't forget.

[Deleted]

Well dunno exactly what the artifact traits will be bringing along but as it is holy wrath talent makes no sense and almost everyone has pointed this out.
Make it a)a timed cd or b)a passive that activates like twist of faith does now for priests. Let the paladin call upon the light and make it in a way that utilizes mana allowing to empower abilities for like a dozen casts till mana depletes and/or bring a strong attack that generates holy power as well .
Everyone would be happy fantasy/burst/finishing wise.

[Lumineus]

You were losing a moderate amount of health, which was topped up in a panic-less manner by healers. It wasn't stabbing yourself in the stomach and bleeding all over the boss.

It also did 30% of the damage of judgment back to you, which wasn't exactly chump change since it was our hardest-hitting attack and it had a 70% base crit chance.

[Reghame]

It also did 30% of the damage of judgment back to you, which wasn't exactly chump change since it was our hardest-hitting attack and it had a 70% base crit chance.

it could easily take out a third if not more of your HP. with cooldowns active and trinkets rolling you could easily kill yourself if not topped off. it was a problem indeed.

[ruiizu]

it could easily take out a third if not more of your HP. with cooldowns active and trinkets rolling you could easily kill yourself if not topped off. it was a problem indeed.

Seal of Blood was never doing those kinds of crits and you know it. To do even half our HP it would need to have crit for 20k, and god knows it definitely wasn't doing that kind of damage. It was barely an issue compared to Berserker Stance and Life Tap.

[Teleros]

it could easily take out a third if not more of your HP.

Attention class, we have a very exciting opportunity here. Reg has decided to paint a massive target on his backside, and wants us all to take our best shot. Let's see if we can tear him a new one, right? Right!

+ + +

Right, let's start with the [Boot of Generous Theorycrafting].

JoB Reflected Damage: 12% AP + 15% WD + 19% SP

1. Now, back in the day, we got SP from Intellect (1 Int = 2 SP) and 30% of our AP as well (1 Str = 2 AP).

2. Let's eyeball it based on http://wotlk.openwow.com/itemset=-264 and double the total Strength, for 1,730 Str. That means 3,460 AP and 1,038 SP. Cal it 4,000 AP and 1500 SP, because I'm nice like that.

3. Assume Shadowmourne (954 - 1592 damage at 3.7 speed, or 344.1 DPS). CBA doing the calcs, so let's just say the AP quintuples this figure, and only pick the highest value in the weapon damage range, because remember, we're using the Boot of Generous Theorycrafting, and I'm bending over backwards so much right now I could win the world limbo championships.

4. Now let's plug the values in...

480 AP + 285 SP + 1,194 WD = 1,959

5. Let's double it, because crits. 3,918 damage back to you.

6. For your statement to be correct, your max health would have to be 13,060 for the above to do 1/3 of it.

Actual health in Season 1 of WotLK = 20k+ (eg Hofflerand's first video, the Disc priest opposing him & Wildfire in the first match had a tad over 23k health, and the DK had 25k).

+ + +

Wow, Reg's sure not looking great after that kicking, eh class? Still, maybe he'll do better if we swing [Ivory Tower Thinking] at him...

Finally, to do 1/3 of 20k health would mean dealing 6,666.6... reflected damage. Coincidentally, reflected damage from Judgement of Blood was 1/3 the damage you did with Judgement of Blood.

So your argument is that Judgement of Blood was literally a one-shot ability. On an 8sec cooldown. With a 30yd range.

Do you not understand why this is stupid?

+ + +

Oh dear. Reg seems have suffered just as much.

Well. At least we learnt something today class! Turns out that spewing bulls--- doesn't actually work.

+ + +

+ + +

And you wonder why so many people flat out don't believe you when you say "DW guys, Legion Ret is fine!" when you either (a) lie through your teeth like this, or (b) are so utterly and objectively clueless about the game.