Will More Or Less Play Rated Come Legion

[Mafic]

Holinka is a dummy but he doesn't realize this experiment was tried before and failed.

WotLk arena had all the incentives while random BGs did not...why step into WotLK arena for rated play when you could faceroll some heroics and receive better gear? You had to REACH 2K rated to obtain a weapon via PVP while you could faceroll heroics and obtain trinkets/weapons within hours.

[rda]

Why you think premades would kill the game? I think bads are killing it. I enter game to win 1-2 BGs and end up playing 4 hours because some idiot is afking or worse.

Premade is something you can do with friends or guild or randoms in LFG. No barrier at all and higher chance to get better and win. Player mentality will also be fixed since games will matter more and so more people will say "why not take it to the next level and play RBG or 5v5 or 3v3".

Current model of random BGs is hurting the games. Zerg maps of 15 vs 15 should be 10 vs 10. Capping flags should be by click and not by standing. 40 vs 40 maps should also be broken to 20 vs 20 as well as 40 vs 40.

Above all else give rated to everything a player does. See how much better players get when they feel that a bad rating reflects bad on them. Right now if you only play random BGs and you lose 9 out of 10 noone knows. Make it visible and see how much more people care.

It's not that premades are killing the game, they are too rare to have an effect on anything, it's that premades matched against randoms can't make PVP attractive for either side. So, we are talking about premades vs premades and randoms vs randoms, and when that happens, premades vs premades are going to be small - they could be large only if PVP has great balance and tons of strats, and WoW is a far, far cry from that. And if you disable randoms vs randoms and have everything be premades vs premades, you simply lose randoms, they won't elect to premades, it's a pipe dream, they don't want to and they have reasons not to want to.

What could maybe kind of work is soloq - it's all rated, but the rule of randoms vs randoms is enforced *and* you get matched vs opponents of equal rating = approximate skill (premades vs premades can still exist in their niche, they don't hurt anything). But that requires (a) Blizzard actually separating randoms and premades - they have been sitting on their bottoms on that for something like ten years now, no indication that they will wake up, (b) the number of players being large enough to jumpstart it all, because with people being separated by rating queue times skyrocket - that might be impossible now, they made BGs region-wide but while they were doing that they lost half of the players and made a big portion of the rest apathetic, so...

Making WoW PVP good and popular is an uphill battle as it is, but with what they are actually doing, it's just a lost cause, they won't succeed at anything here ever. Legion PVP isn't going to do any revolutions, it's going to be another "yeah, and we also have PVP..." with no real popularity among players (other than maybe to AFK for gear, if that's going to be beneficial), zero pull outside of WoW, no youtube, no twitch, and a single sad tournament at Blizzcon where a couple of usual suspects will fuck each other beside pillars for a couple of bucks.

[Cempa]

They play the company over the 'player' pushing forward organizational objectives over what the vast majority may want. Take 3v3 and how they have shoved that bracket down the player base throat .. How many actually play actively 3v3? Now how many play actively random BG's? 3v3/e-sport is a niche and its a cool niche so isolate it from the rest of the random game play .. put 3v3 and RBG inside a bubble and leave PvE/wPvP/Random BG's the FUQ alone ..

[Snegovik]

Gear no longer matter in Legion PvP.

Gear Does matter in legion PvP, also honor talents also matter, so now there will be 2 things to grind than one. Best part it will be much harder for your alt to catch up in Legion than it is now on WOD (which takes 2 days pvping to get full conquest set)

[Caolela]

Legion will be the Haves and the Have Nots, the rich getting richer. You'll need RNG luck, a high ranking and/or HC and Mythic raiding to get the top gear, and those that grind to get it will stomp those who don't. Then there's the talent and weapon grind. It will be segregation worse than any previous xpac.

Instead of doing something serious about the rampant hackers and scumlords, it will further encourage cheating/botting and selling carries, wintrades, pilots at the mid CR levels up through the high end. All of this and still only 11 (8 for rated) BG maps (not counting Shitran), and 2 more arena maps in Legion for 8 total. That's a joke when after nearly 12 years we should have 3 times that for each format.

[Toppy]

Legion will be the Haves and the Have Nots, the rich getting richer. You'll need RNG luck, a high ranking and/or HC and Mythic raiding to get the top gear, and those that grind to get it will stomp those who don't. Then there's the talent and weapon grind. It will be segregation worse than any previous xpac.

Instead of doing something serious about the rampant hackers and scumlords, it will further encourage cheating/botting and selling carries, wintrades, pilots at the mid CR levels up through the high end. All of this and still only 11 (8 for rated) BG maps (not counting Shitran), and 2 more arena maps in Legion for 8 total. That's a joke when after nearly 12 years we should have 3 times that for each format.

Exactly.

Legion will be praised for about a month or two. Then the grim reality will set in, just like WoD, and people will leave in droves, just like WoD.

This new system serves no one at all. Its doing to much at once while also being contradictory to the stated direction of PvP (there will be bigger power discrepancies than ever). Hell, everything about PvP in legion seems to be actively trying to -decrease- rated participation. Seems you'll be better off doing dungeons for gear, and the only way to get any of the new PvP rewards is to reset your talents and not be able to do rated untill they get back up. Plus the nonsense with artifact weapon grinds.

[Osmeric]

Yes, more will play rated.

Unrated PvP participation will collapse, though.

[Tylaeus]

As an overall number? Definitely less.

As a percentage of the overall playerbase? Most likely more, considering there's less gear gating than there ever was. Honor level will be a deterrent at first, but it'll be a month or two at most before most players have hit 0 Prestige-50 Honor, and then they'll never have to level it up again unless they prestige or reroll. Even if there's not a huge boom in the percentage of players doing rated, I can't see the number getting any lower.

[unstableone]

re-introducing rating on gear = less rated play

repeat the same mistake, get the same result


gear will also matter as time goes by

[Toppy]

re-introducing rating on gear = less rated play

repeat the same mistake, get the same result


gear will also matter as time goes by

Dont forget reintroducing raiding as the best, fastest method to gain gear for PvP = less rated play

[Jinxz]

well with rated pvp being more skill based instead of gear based now, i see it going up in players who want actual pvp, but down with players who just play 24/7 eventually win, get BIS then like to stomp teams lower geared then them

I'm sorry, I couldn't help but laugh histerically while crying. Legion PvP is far from skill based.

[Toppy]

I'm sorry, I couldn't help but laugh histerically while crying. Legion PvP is far from skill based.

High level/rated playing in WoD was not at all gear based at that. If you started early there was a system in place keeping peoples gear (so long as they had honor) near to each other that slowly went up as the season went on. If you started late, getting geared up was very quick and easy due to the rising conquest cap.

People who say that PvP was gear based in WoD, did not PvP in WoD.

[Mafic]

Yes, more will play rated.

Unrated PvP participation will collapse, though.

It is more accurate to say both rated and unrated will collapse like what happened in WotLK. Everyone just facerolled heroics/raids in WotLK and Legion is no different in that regard.

Prestige system is going to collapse the unrated portion and rated play having players stratified with the WotLK PVP gear rating model will ensure the ladders will also collapse. That is why unrated BG queues at the end of WoTLK were very high despite Bliz easing restrictions on gear in the final two seaons. And PVP ladders shrunk massively compared to BC.

[Deleted]

I am hopeful arena pvp will once again be revived.

Mostly because it seems that your 2vs2 rating will also count towards getting better gear from pvp. 2vs2 is the most popular arena bracket, so I hope this will revitalize the whole arena scene as people try to climb up the ladder in 2vs2.

[Toppy]

It is more accurate to say both rated and unrated will collapse like what happened in WotLK. Everyone just facerolled heroics/raids in WotLK and Legion is no different in that regard.

Prestige system is going to collapse the unrated portion and rated play having players stratified with the WotLK PVP gear rating model will ensure the ladders will also collapse. That is why unrated BG queues at the end of WoTLK were very high despite Bliz easing restrictions on gear in the final two seaons. And PVP ladders shrunk massively compared to BC.

So what you're saying is that blizzard is entirely incapable of learning from past mistakes.

[Osmeric]

It is more accurate to say both rated and unrated will collapse like what happened in WotLK. Everyone just facerolled heroics/raids in WotLK and Legion is no different in that regard.

Wrath PvP was saved by Wintergrasp. It's a shame they've never been able to replicate that fun.

But yeah, you have a good argument about ladder collapse.

[Jinxz]

Wrath PvP was saved by Wintergrasp. It's a shame they've never been able to replicate that fun.

But yeah, you have a good argument about ladder collapse.

Wrath had the highest number of players playing rated arena in the history of WoW...

[Caolela]

Wrath had the highest number of players playing rated arena in the history of WoW...

Sorry but you're wrong.

Here's some stats recently posted on percentage of Arena players 2v2 and 3v3: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745676130

It's not perfect as the poster said, but it's pretty good based on what is known. The point is that BC had highest arena participation, by 2x to 4x more than Wrath.

2v2

TBC:
Season 3: 10.82%
Season 4: 7.95%
WOTLK:
Season 5: 3.79%
Season 6: 4.19%
2S NO LONGER REWARDS TITLES:
Season 7: 3.49%
Season 8: 3.49%
CAT:
Season 9: 4.01%
Season 10: 2.65%

3v3

TBC:
Season 3: 8.76% | Sub Count: 10.9M
Season 4: 4.83% | Sub Count: 11M
WOTLK:
Season 5: 2.05% | Sub Count: 11.5M
Season 6: 2.36% | Sub Count: 11.5M
2S NO LONGER REWARDS TITLES:
Season 7: 2.25% | Sub Count: 12M
Season 8: 2.96% | Sub Count: 12M
CAT:
Season 9: 2.56% | Sub Count: 11.5M
Season 10: 1.92% | Sub Count: 10.2M
MOP:
Season 14: 3.42% | Lowest Rank: 232811 | Sub Count: 6.8M
Season 15: 3.32% | Lowest Rank: 331813 | Sub Count: 10M
WOD:
Season 16: 4.65% | Lowest Rank: 260561 | Sub Count: 5.6M
Season 18: ?.??% | Lowest Rank: 230448 (As of Posting This) | Sub Count: ?.?M

So trying to defend Blizzard's Legion revert back to Wrath-like bullshit simply doesn't work.

[Jinxz]

Sorry but you're wrong.

Here's some stats recently posted on percentage of Arena players 2v2 and 3v3: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745676130

It's not perfect as the poster said, but it's pretty good based on what is known. The point is that BC had highest arena participation, by 2x to 4x more than Wrath.




So trying to defend Blizzard's Legion revert back to Wrath-like bullshit simply doesn't work.

My mistake then, it def felt like a lot more ppl were playing in wrath, or it might have been that more specs were viable.

[Mafic]

My mistake then, it def felt like a lot more ppl were playing in wrath, or it might have been that more specs were viable.

BC arenas were inflated somewhat by PVE player participation. The problem with WotLK arena in season 1 and 2 was DKs were so overpowered it forced a lot of players away. It didn't help that there was no entry level PVP weapon and tier 1 PVP weapon and tier 2 PVP weapon were gated by high ratings. WotLK was more balanced towards the end of the expansion but the damage was already done. Long queue times for unrated BG's and rated play fighting against DK's shadowmourne or strong PVE trinkets still drove players away.