Is it true you can get EVERY trait in an Artifact weapon?...

[ManOluck]

He's trying to equate them to Vanilla style Talent Trees and get people to say those trees were better than talents are now it's why he keeps harping on illusion of choice.

Since the game is still in beta there is nothing wrong about pointing out potential flaws in a system that could be made more fun by giving a player more "options".

[Tijuana]

What's the point of this system if you can eventually just fill up every trait to max effectiveness? 1/1, 3/3 and get every powerful effect.

Doesn't this just give the ILLUSION of choice? Seems like they essentially took the Perk system and shoved it into a talent tree to appease the crowd that wanted trees, only they don't really serve as a means to differentiate our character from others.

Yeah, illusion of choice is what people wanted. That's why they want the old talent trees. The new talent trees you have to make an actual choice.

[Eon Drache]

Looks like dmg for me, all dps specs get dmg from the 20/20 perks

Ignore my post then. Last time I was on the beta the ret trait increased stamina.

[Saracens]

You won't fill the artifact within the first raid tier. I've been on beta for over a month and I'm not close.

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Your AP gains go up substantially every day based on research and it scaling up the rewards.

Right now I'm at 18 which is like 25k or something and there literally almost 20k to me available through world quests.

Dungeons easily give a 1000 per run too.

Well aware, but when you need 2.2mil for the last point alone.. lol it's not going to be quick. Trust.

[beanman12345]

The point is they need something for you to grind out. this is it.

[ManOluck]

The point is they need something for you to grind out. this is it.

Yep. To bad more people don't notice this.

[ComputerNerd]

Increasing cost does not make it impossible, just increasingly difficult.
So the choice should come from the route taken to get there.
However whether that feels like a real choice depends on the community, and their response to less than "optimal" routes.
As long as there are options which increase throughput in any way, there will be optimal ones.

[WintersLegion]

Yep. To bad more people don't notice this.

Everyone notices this most people are fine with it or don't care. People have been talking about it since they were announced.

[Awbee]

The point of the system is not to offer meaningful customisation choices, but to provide a source of ongoing character progression at max level. The optional leveling path is just a neat bit of flavour along the way. Customisation comes via talents.

This. It gives back that sense of ongoing progression that I loved with the old talent trees.

[pmkaboo]

Seems I have a good understanding of what it is... I just think it's a terribly unintuitive system to give the ILLUSION of choice.

the choice is there, youll get stuck at certain levels for months.

[striderZA]

He's trying to equate them to Vanilla style Talent Trees and get people to say those trees were better than talents are now it's why he keeps harping on illusion of choice.

But they're very much not talent trees, so comparing them to talent trees is pretty stupid.

[Imnick]

People who raged at the old talent system "eat this up" because Blizzard have been very clear about this from the beginning and have not once tried to sell this as "customisation", as they did the old talent system.

Almost everyone on the forum knows this and is fine with it. It's not our fault you live under a rock.

[Blur4stuff]

there is choice for a long time. you don't start legion with a maxed artifact. for quite awhile you're going to choose which ones you have access to and it will matter.

[Saracens]

This was my early crude rendition of my pathing for my UH DK. That being said you can see how much EACH slot will cost for filling it. So if it's 1/1 or 3/3 it tells you how much you need to complete the slot.



This has since been overhauled, but without the points. That's why I keep it around.

[deadman1]

Seems I have a good understanding of what it is... I just think it's a terribly unintuitive system to give the ILLUSION of choice.

I don't think it was ever trying to give you the illusion of choice. It seems you just misunderstood the system and are blaming blizz instead of yourself.

[striderZA]

Yep. To bad more people don't notice this.

So you want RPG elements but you're bitching at stuff that requires grinding? Okay.

[Florena]

Artifact traits are not supposed to be about choice. They're about post leveling character progression aside from gear. It was never intended as a talent tree. There is no conspiracy here.

[Deleted]

You won't fill the artifact within the first raid tier. I've been on beta for over a month and I'm not close.

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Well aware, but when you need 2.2mil for the last point alone.. lol it's not going to be quick. Trust.

Yeah but it's not the point you get all, many of them are useless to performance so when you can, skip those. On my artifact I can literally skip 5-7 traits and just prio the golden traits and then fill in those later, so to maximize, I won't even get near those 2+ million cost traits.

Also they increased the cap of research to 25, research is 1 per 24hours, not to mention at 25 you'll probably have an increase well beyond 2000-3000%. Granted right now I can farm 20-30k AP per day (if I want to), It'll be easily around 100k per day (and more). So yes the traits will take long, but not as long as some of you try to make it look.

[Saracens]

Yeah but it's not the point you get all, many of them are useless to performance so when you can, skip those. On my artifact I can literally skip 5-7 traits and just prio the golden traits and then fill in those later, so to maximize, I won't even get near those 2+ million cost traits.

Also they increased the cap of research to 25, research is 1 per 24hours, not to mention at 25 you'll probably have an increase well beyond 2000-3000%. Granted right now I can farm 20-30k AP per day (if I want to), It'll be easily around 100k per day (and more). So yes the traits will take long, but not as long as some of you try to make it look.

It'll take a few months. I don't think anyone is trying to make it seem longer than that.

[Keiyra]

The point of the system is not to offer meaningful customisation choices, but to provide a source of ongoing character progression at max level. The optional leveling path is just a neat bit of flavour along the way. Customisation comes via talents.

^This

Anyone who is complaining about illusion of choice doesn't understand the core purpose of the artifact tree. It was never about choice, it was about progress over time.