Players with PVP honor talents are smashing players without PVP honor talents

[Daedius]

Prestige exists, a lot of people would be ranking through it so I'd imagine people sitting at 50 would be few and far in between, for awhile after launch anyways.

[PaladinBash]

Prestige is meant to take time and be a hard grind. Yes, that means you actually have to endure something. Is it hard to dunk noobs over and over and over again for hours? Not really so you gotta suffer a bit of a hit by resetting your talents.

If you're a fresh character, just grind it out too like everyone else does. It only takes a few hours to get a full row at level 10 if you win half the time. Most of those talents aren't amazing for every spec but it's something useful.

[Tumble]

I'd still rather the current gear grind to the legion grind. Currently you wanna switch toons half way through the season, no worries, one afternoon you can be nearly caught up. Legion, grind my talents, okay now grind my weapon, okay now grind my gear, oh whats that, its half way through the season and people with a higher rating have a higher item lvl so you literally have zero chance of climbing past a certain wall if you wait too long. Yeah that sounds heaps better than the current system doesn't it pvers.

[Krusza]

Jesus, no wonder Blizzard can't sort their game out when people cry about literally everything these days.

It's a good system. You don't want to prestige? Don't do it. Personally, I'm going to form a premade and sweat out max prestige in the first few days. It's a good incentive to play BGs and may lead to encountering decent players in them again. There's literally no reason to play BGs besides when you're gearing.

Are you really using the argument of "why would a PvE player want to do PvP if you have to farm honor talents"? I could say that about raiding, why do I have to spend weeks gearing in order to raid Mythic? Because it's different content.

It sounds like you literally don't care about character progression. If you think you should have the same stuff as someone who's spent 10x more time than you in that area of content then that's absurd. I don't think MMORPGs are for you.

I'm glad grinding is back in the game. It means you need to have more dedication to your main character. I'm not a fan of being able to level alts in a couple of days and gear in a few hours when triple honor is on, then cap in 2s a few hours later for absolute BiS gear.

You dedicate more time to a character, you get higher rewards. How it should be.

[Jinxz]

Prestige exists, a lot of people would be ranking through it so I'd imagine people sitting at 50 would be few and far in between, for awhile after launch anyways.

The entire arena community won't ever prestige, so there's that.

[Krusza]

The entire arena community won't ever prestige, so there's that.

Normally there's a week or a couple of weeks before the season start, so they'll probably form premades and farm it in the first week. That's what I'm doing, anyway.

[Lilly32]

On the PTR. This is the future of WoW PVP?!

Good job Holinka.

Seriously...why introduce such disparity for players to overcome if the goal is to increase PVP participation? Yes, he said that players will start in a separate bracket that have no honor talents, but what is the cutoff point?

And why would a PVE player want to do PVP if they have to grind out honor talents?

this is the way it should work. stop trying to ruin this game with your bernie sanders wellfare everyone is equal bullshit. If player X puts in more time than Player Y then they should have an advantage. What other incentive would there be for people to grind then? If I play 40 hours a week I should be stronger than someone who only plays 4 hours a week. They can always choose to play more and grind out PvP talents if they want to be better. Hell they already destroyed PvP gear because of people like you. Just stop already.

[wholol]

OP starts thread about disparity between X and Y, X and Y start arguing and fighting each other, OP leaves. sounds familiar?

This topic has been discussed so many times already it's gotten bland , at this point it's simply a reason to argue over rather than actually discuss anything really.

Farm those talents like you farmed honor for gear, it takes time it sure does but that's the point of it.

You're playing an mmo , spending time on something is what you signed up for.

[Caolela]

this is the way it should work. stop trying to ruin this game with your bernie sanders wellfare everyone is equal bullshit. If player X puts in more time than Player Y then they should have an advantage.

Except you're forgetting that Blizz's stated intention for Legion was to "ruin the game" with making gear not matter/"Bernie Sanders welfare everyone is equal bullshit". It's always been that people had to put 'x' amount of time into grinding PvP gear (not counting Wrath) but it didn't take long for everyone to have the same BiS honor or conquest gear - AND we had a choice to decide which gear we wanted to buy.

Most smart players would get their trinkets first while saving 3500 CP until they reached the 7250 conquest requirement to buy their weapon/OH, then go for their 2pc or 4pc, then fill in remaining slots. But we had a choice.

Now it's going to be a much longer grind to RNG for gear, and for talents and Artifact - AND you'll have to get ranking into Glad/Marshall range and/or raiding Heroic and Mythic to get BiS gear. Along the way you'll get curb-stomped by those who have better RNG gear and talents, especially those specs that are OP with the early talents.

Blizz destroyed gearing and PvP not because of people like Mafic. They did it to artificially increase sub times with longer grinds and to segregate players into the Haves and Have Nots, while not spending a penny on new content except for 2 new arena maps. After 12 long years we'll have a whopping 8 arenas (/golfclap) and still just 8 BGs. That's called gouging or profit-taking at the expense of product quality and the customer.

[Krieger]

On the PTR. This is the future of WoW PVP?!

Good job Holinka.

Is this a surprise to you? This guy has been butchering WoW PvP for the past four, almost five years and people are just now realizing it... This guy has no business working on WoW considering he worked on Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, Homefront, and Frontlines: Fuel of War before coming to Blizzard. I mean seriously, what were they thinking putting this clown in charge????

Source: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Brian_Holinka

[Snegovik]

What is this? Why would you even get mad at this? It's a huge improvement to how pvp have worked in the past and WOD. The Power difference between a person joining pvp that just have dinged 100 isn't going to stand a chance against those with good gear. Now people have a fighting chance and won't get discouraged when doing pvp as a freshly dinged player.

You do realize that in legion there will be even BIGGER gap between freshly dinged players and full time pvpers, since it will be not only a different in gear (to which fresh toons will need loooooooooooong time to catch up oppose to now, where it takes 2 days to get full conquest) but also there will be difference in honor talents. Ppl who started pvping from day 1 as their prime activity, would have those talents unlocked, while fresh 110s won't have a single talent available to them, hence it will create even a bigger gap between fresh toons and veterans

[Mafic]

Prestige exists, a lot of people would be ranking through it so I'd imagine people sitting at 50 would be few and far in between, for awhile after launch anyways.

Hardcore PVP players will reach honor level 50 within one week.

Players trying to prestige without premades will be smashed. And if you are forming premades to prestige you are not a casual PVP player but a hardcore PVP player.

[Snegovik]

Hardcore PVP players will reach honor level 50 within one week.

Players trying to prestige without premades will be smashed. And if you are forming premades to prestige you are not a casual PVP player but a hardcore PVP player.

Well to be honest its all dep on POV (hard core vs casual), personally this season i am taking a break from rated PvP, i just run BGs solo que or with friends (pre mades) + world pvp/gangking and consider myself a casual PvPer. To me personally a hard core PvPer is some1 who spends 5-6 hours every day pushing Glad or R1 (for an example) in Arena, also pushing high rating in RBGs, and in between runs Regular bgs with arena mates in a premade.

[wing5wong]

The biggest issue I have with prestige is that it effectively segregates rated and prestige players.
Currently there is nothing like this in wow.

I don't mind the grind, but I also enjoy rated, and without the honour high rated pvp can't happen at the same time.

I'd be a huge fan of prestige allowing you to lock in an honour talent at each rank. You can't have your perfect setup, but you can have a bit of it

[Edison]

And my answer to that would be no one is forcing you to reset your talents.

The attitude of people has been changing since the end of wotlk, you give people free stuff and make stuff easier and people are going to wanna take it one step further every time. Kinda sad Imo

[Yassy]

The biggest issue I have with prestige is that it effectively segregates rated and prestige players.
Currently there is nothing like this in wow.

I don't mind the grind, but I also enjoy rated, and without the honour high rated pvp can't happen at the same time.

I'd be a huge fan of prestige allowing you to lock in an honour talent at each rank. You can't have your perfect setup, but you can have a bit of it

So you dedicate your time to pushing Prestige or Rating? Whenever I pushed Glad, I didnt raid. When I pushed end game content, I didnt push Glad. They should segregate the systems. It reduces burn out. Sure, you're going to run into situations where youre 2200 or whatever and decide to push a prestige rank and maybe you want to arena in between. You'll play at a handicap and have to deal with it.

What I don't understand about these complaints are that players think they are the ONLY this happens to, or at least thats the mentality they convey. Player A isn't going to be the only sub level 50 honor rank 2200 player in that bracket when he prestige resets, so its not like you're ONLY playing against honor level 50 players. You will play against them, but you also will play against people who arent honor capped.

At the end of the day, the reward you decide to chase is your decision.

[wing5wong]

So you dedicate your time to pushing Prestige or Rating? Whenever I pushed Glad, I didnt raid. When I pushed end game content, I didnt push Glad. They should segregate the systems. It reduces burn out. Sure, you're going to run into situations where youre 2200 or whatever and decide to push a prestige rank and maybe you want to arena in between. You'll play at a handicap and have to deal with it.

What I don't understand about these complaints are that players think they are the ONLY this happens to, or at least thats the mentality they convey. Player A isn't going to be the only sub level 50 honor rank 2200 player in that bracket when he prestige resets, so its not like you're ONLY playing against honor level 50 players. You will play against them, but you also will play against people who arent honor capped.

At the end of the day, the reward you decide to chase is your decision.

I maintained 2600 ratings as well as pushing mythic world rankings. This isn't about me, it's about anyone who wishes to pursue several aspects of the game at once. To bring burnout into it... What? 4-5 hour roads, and rbgs in the weekend/Friday nights. Big deal. Now, we need to raid, prestige/grind and fit rated in if we enjoy all aspects of the game.

Neither of those decisions(raid prog and pvp push) introduced a handicap of which abilities I had available. Never before had that type of handicap existed for choosing which activity to pursue.

Top bracket rbgs will not have players missing key abilities. For 2200, sure. But missing talents like cyclone or or 30 sec beam is a deal breaker for a boomy for example. Some talents are just added damage. Some make or break the spec.

[Freedom]

Considering they put a lot of stripped utility back in as Honor Talents, what did you expect? A DK that can Dark Simalcrum is going to be more valuable in PVP than one who cannot, simply by default.

[wing5wong]

Considering they put a lot of stripped utility back in as Honor Talents, what did you expect? A DK that can Dark Simalcrum is going to be more valuable in PVP than one who cannot, simply by default.

Exactly the point.
Prestiging restricts you severely in terms of which groups you can join.
Imagine this: "Oh sorry you chose to raid highmaul this tier. The rest of the guild chose to do brf. "


For random rbgs it doesn't matter. For higher rated you are either excluded or required to either never prestige, or prestige grind early season and forgo rating from higher groups. Prestiging late is an option if you already have hero/guardian, but if you are pushing for those you can't prestige when doing your push.

Personally I will just prestige late. But I would like to be able to work on both simultaneously (as we can with every other form of prog right now).

[Reapocalypse]

They are not supposed to be activated at level 100, hence why some Damage numbers are way to overtuned, on top of that, as mentioned in the Q&A, you get your first talent "row" within the first 10 levels which is obtained very fast, the disparity wont be as ridiculous as it is now.

Getting to Level 50 takes btw about 5 days (more if you play less ofc) and for me about 100 random BGs.

Generally speaking Ranked players wont prestige, maybe between Seasons but outside of that there is simply no reason to be unable to queue any Rated Arena or BG for about a week until you are viable again (depending on class), but since all the rewards are purely cosmetic i don't see a big problem with that, random BG spammers haven't gotten anything nice since........well, vanilla or so.