[Beta] Vengeance Discussion

[Orloth]

5.0 Pain as spell costs include the tenth's digit for some reason, and it still has the 15 second recharge.

[Delimit]

I doubt that part will be noticeable. We already have irregular Pain generation from damage intake. What will be noticeable is generating ~25% less Pain (with IA still at 20) from abilities.

The main thing it changes is Soul Cleave will be much less frequent, and we will have a greater window it can be used at full strength without wasting Pain. We will see how it plays out.

But at least we have more HP.

Except that they gimped the stamina artifact traits.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=253997/l...3-data-updates

Pain generation being knocked down that far is going to make the rotation feel even worse, considering you'll be spending even more time spamming Shear, which was something people already hated.

[Orloth]

Oh, thank you for pointing that out. That sucks.

Yeah, I liked it when it was 12 and 40, Soul Cleave felt like a regular part of your rotation, and you weren't really spamming Shear. These last few patches have turned it the other way to now 7 and 60. Ick.

[Delimit]

Yeah, I thought the move from 10 to 12 was brilliant. That little bit of extra pain really helped the rotation out, bringing it back down to 10 was quite disappointing. Kicking it down to 7 is just asinine, especially with the nerfs to the generation from everything else. (Except Immolation Aura)

[Deleted]

2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 4

...oh don't mind me, just training my new tank rotation.

[Melsiren]

Yeah, I thought the move from 10 to 12 was brilliant. That little bit of extra pain really helped the rotation out, bringing it back down to 10 was quite disappointing. Kicking it down to 7 is just asinine, especially with the nerfs to the generation from everything else. (Except Immolation Aura)

Which begs the question what the design intent is.

I'm not in the Beta so I run off second hand information mostly in this forum... which is why I don't understand why these pain generation nerfs were justified.

[Deleted]

If they thought we were overtuned they could have toned us down without affecting the playstyle :/

[Orloth]

If forced to guess, I'd say they want the choice of when to Soul Cleave to be more significant than it was previously; which, to their credit, that's what these changes do.

[Deleted]

It feels like now more than ever we need another generator baseline, something like felblade, surely they can't expect us to be spamming shear for 90% of our gcds.

[Delimit]

If forced to guess, I'd say they want the choice of when to Soul Cleave to be more significant than it was previously; which, to their credit, that's what these changes do.

I mean, that's a problem of their own making since it's our only spender. They could have made Fracture baseline and allowed that same meaningful choice without neutering the pain generation. Nobody wants to spend all fight spamming Shear waiting for that perfect time to use Soul Cleave.

[Melsiren]

It feels like now more than ever we need another generator baseline, something like felblade, surely they can't expect us to be spamming shear for 90% of our gcds.

At this point I doubt they will do anything major like add a new ability into the base spec, no matter how much we beg for Felblade to be baseline I think that's a dead horse and a long lost cause.

[Deleted]

Maybe reduced cd of immo aura would at least soften the blow

[Neudgae]

since i dont have beta, ive seen people do quite a bit of soloing(which is the entire reason i wanna play dh) how does this affect this? does this make it super hard? or just a minor nerf or?

[Cooper]

I mean, that's a problem of their own making since it's our only spender. They could have made Fracture baseline and allowed that same meaningful choice without neutering the pain generation. Nobody wants to spend all fight spamming Shear waiting for that perfect time to use Soul Cleave.

Yeah, it baffles me that Blizzard seems to have a problem with characters having a choice of what to use for their resources. All these recent changes make Fracture increasingly unappealing as an ability and a talent, since now not only does Soul Cleave sort-of cost more Pain to use, but that Pain is harder to come by. At least that's the way it looks on paper, anyway.

It kind of feels like they're just changing things for the sake of changing them now. :/

[8bithamster]

What scares me most is that at lower item levels (so just 110, gearing for heroic), I really relied on my self healing to keep me up. Healers had a hard time to keep tanks alive in some fights. Now with these nerfs it seems that we got gutted in that regard as well. Rather.. scared of doing dungeons atm.

[Deleted]

Guess blizzard balances all around max artifact and gear, but what they dont take in mind is that this will take a long time to achieve even for mythic raiders. I tested tichondrius yesterday as Veng and Havoc and both seems pretty strong. Although i agree that our rotation will be a bit "boring". Hope they change a few things back atleast.

[Deliverer]

The only reason they nerfed pain generation is pain from damage taken, because when you do high lvl mythic + and mythic raiding you get a lot of pain from getting hit. Same shit that happened to warrior this xpack.

So unless you are getting super high damage your rotation is garbage.

[Deleted]

Dont really understand this batch of nerfs ...

[Zasriel]

I really wish Blizzard would get away from the RFDT/PFDT (Rage from Damage Taken/Pain from Damage Taken) models and back to the Active rotations that we see on Live today... but I realize with how close we are to Live that this won't happen. =/

[Roshar]

I really wish Blizzard would get away from the RFDT/PFDT (Rage from Damage Taken/Pain from Damage Taken) models and back to the Active rotations that we see on Live today... but I realize with how close we are to Live that this won't happen. =/

It's idiotic that they even went back to that system in the first place. It's not like this is a new system, it was present before and it was frustrating to balance, no idea what they were thinking.