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  1. #41
    <snip>

    Infracted {MoanaLisa}
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2016-07-06 at 06:32 AM.
    "Those mortal shells that we call bodies, are not ours to keep. The body is a gift of earth that must, one day, be returned from whence it came"

  2. #42
    Ok OP, and your point is............? Things were different years ago? That's absolutely mindboggling!

  3. #43
    Herald of the Titans
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    I have to say, almost all the changes in Legion have been positive ones. So I can't agree with his philosophy when I see concrete evidence of the opposite being good for the game
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  4. #44
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    I must say, I am amazed that so many listen to Ghostcrawler now, because you sure as hell didn't back in the days. Even when he revealed his main, people still didn't believe him. And now, all words spoken from his Twitter are inspected and taken to discussion. Of course, some are now work comments too, but still.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  5. #45
    They'll either change it to something I don't like or I'll get bored of the same game over and over again.. Or they'll change it to something I like.. So I vote for change is good.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    Edit: misspelled Ghostcrawler in title. Sorry. If a mod could fix it I would appreciate it

    https://twitter.com/OccupyGStreet/st...93793418379265

    Ghostcrawler mentions in the above tweet that Blizzard's strategy with WoW was to minimise change. Since Ghostcrawler's departure however, there seems to have been a major shift in this strategy and the game has undergone major change, some of which have been very controversial (Legion class changes, flying, RNG rewards changes, etc.)

    Do you believe that minimising change was the right strategy? Or are complete shake ups needed to keep WoW relevant?

    Personally I don't think change for the sake of change is really productive (Garrisons, Order Halls, Shipyards, etc.). I think there should be a greater focus on what they do best. That is not to say that they shouldn't innovate. But it can't come at the expense of core content like it has in WoD.
    That system worked fine in the beginning. there werent too many games that could compete with wow. It set the standard because there really wasnt much to set it against. EQ and UO, that's about it. DAoC was there, but it was garbage. Now there are tons of MMO's that, if introduced at the same time, could have put a dent in the success of warcraft. Competition drives innovation, which is good. I've worked over a decade in the japanese manufacturing business, and "continuous improvement" is the motto they live by. I agree with it to an extent. When you start to get diminishing returns on the "improvements", maybe its time to stick to what works for a little while. WoW did that for 10 years, and now its time to start figuring out what they can do to improve. Kaizen for the sake of kaizen is just bullshit.

  7. #47
    HAHAHA...people still think one or two developers have THAT big of an impact on a game. Just because they happen to be the current voice to the players, does not mean they control eveything you like/dislike in the game.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Rorixis View Post
    I think people haven't read the quote properly. The strategy about minimizing change was in regards to Warlords class development - not WoW in general or any other expansion for that matter.
    i repeat: ability pruning and minimize changes ? wait... WHAT ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 4dahorde View Post
    HAHAHA...people still think one or two developers have THAT big of an impact on a game. Just because they happen to be the current voice to the players, does not mean they control eveything you like/dislike in the game.
    of course a whole team "decide" things. try out things. test directions. and so on. as a sw developer since 15 year in that business, i see that a lot. but in the end of the day, someone has to decide the blue pill or the red pill.

    ask yourself who said yes or no to raid descissions and how raids could be build today if there was no ion hazzikostas. maybe they were better or maybe worse. but for sure: not exactly the same.

    or in short: ppl matter.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    The point isn't about Ghostcrawler, but about the company's strategy while he was there. Clearly there has been a shift in Blizzard's strategy in recent times. But us change for the sake of change the way to go?
    Actually they shook things up in LK, Cata and MOP. WOD didn't offer a lot of change outside of a couple class specs and that's what GC is commenting on. They did pruning rather than re-working classes. A lot of these changes are harder to swallow because it's more than just deleting abilities. We're seeing actual class shake ups similar to what we saw in other expansions.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    You guys are really never going to let this idea go that a computer game can remain unchanging for 10+ years and that would just be fine, are you?
    You mean like Dota and Counter-strike?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by styil View Post
    Edit: misspelled Ghostcrawler in title. Sorry. If a mod could fix it I would appreciate it

    https://twitter.com/OccupyGStreet/st...93793418379265

    Ghostcrawler mentions in the above tweet that Blizzard's strategy with WoW was to minimise change. Since Ghostcrawler's departure however, there seems to have been a major shift in this strategy and the game has undergone major change, some of which have been very controversial (Legion class changes, flying, RNG rewards changes, etc.)

    Do you believe that minimising change was the right strategy? Or are complete shake ups needed to keep WoW relevant?

    Personally I don't think change for the sake of change is really productive (Garrisons, Order Halls, Shipyards, etc.). I think there should be a greater focus on what they do best. That is not to say that they shouldn't innovate. But it can't come at the expense of core content like it has in WoD.
    The tweet addresses the philosophy of class changes, not all the other stuff you're trying to drudge up.
    I'd like to think that most reasonable people look at GC tweets and see that he is very pro industry - he supports his fellow developers while critiquing design choices professionally. Trying to weaponize his quotes is sort of immature.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by DrStiglit View Post
    They'll either change it to something I don't like or I'll get bored of the same game over and over again.. Or they'll change it to something I like.. So I vote for change is good.
    ofc evolution HAVE to happen. but WHERE, thats what is key. imagine a world where your classes are slowly fine-granulated improved, instead being the anchor for evolution. and imagine, the evolution and changes happened instead in the game itself. in raid mechanics, in mini-games, in a whole new platform to keep you playing and adventuring things (no, i dont talk about uncreative same old shit like world quests etc).

    or in short: change the game instead changing class mechanics.

    so, why that didnt happen ? there is an easy simple answer: if you change class mechanics you just change logic code there. you just change database entries. most of it is math, data and algorithms. you need nearly no design capacity. or in short: it is cheap.

    the result of all of that is: you must evolve your game. but you want to do it cost efficency. so, automatically, evolution is tied to class mechanics. simple as that.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2016-07-06 at 06:18 AM.

  13. #53
    The Lightbringer Aori's Avatar
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    I've always loved shakeups, that is why I thought old talent trees were fantastic, it always keep things fresh. Sure Blizzard kept swinging one way or another with nerf bats when a new OP build broke thu but again that was a benefit for the players IMO. Shakeups take a lot of work though, it is a reason the old trees were removed in the first place.

  14. #54
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    This has been known for a long while. Something they've talked about before and after this. Biggest changes they make happen with prepatches only. And then it's arguable as to whether these changes are actually big. For class changes a single talent that is bis tuning wise can destroy a player's enjoyment of a spec. Knowing you have to wait two years to get any sort of change can be pretty off putting.

  15. #55
    The Lightbringer Aori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharkkun View Post
    Actually they shook things up in LK, Cata and MOP. WOD didn't offer a lot of change outside of a couple class specs and that's what GC is commenting on. They did pruning rather than re-working classes. A lot of these changes are harder to swallow because it's more than just deleting abilities. We're seeing actual class shake ups similar to what we saw in other expansions.
    Cata, MoP and WoD were dumbdowners not real shakeups.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by 4dahorde View Post
    HAHAHA...people still think one or two developers have THAT big of an impact on a game. Just because they happen to be the current voice to the players, does not mean they control eveything you like/dislike in the game.
    False: The most nonsensical thing to come out of blizzard was pretending they have no boss. If everybody is the boss then everyone must set their own standards. That explains why the game fell apart. Because if Mary doesn't care about her quality of the part of the game she is working on then the whole game just got drug down hill even more than it would have if one person set the standard that everyone else must reach for everyday.
    Last edited by Barnabas; 2016-07-06 at 06:23 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulSoBreezy View Post
    The tweet addresses the philosophy of class changes, not all the other stuff you're trying to drudge up.
    I'd like to think that most reasonable people look at GC tweets and see that he is very pro industry - he supports his fellow developers while critiquing design choices professionally. Trying to weaponize his quotes is sort of immature.
    The conversation started with with a general discussion about risk aversion though. The class changes just happened to be the example that was brought up.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    If they could stop overhauling every single spec every god damn expansion that'd be great. You have to switch classes every time a new expansion comes out because the spec you liked doesn't exist anymore.
    This so much... I don't mind changes but classes and specs are being changed way too much way too often.

  19. #59
    Deleted
    You know he was only talking about class gameplay right ?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    You guys are really never going to let this idea go that a computer game can remain unchanging for 10+ years and that would just be fine, are you?
    I dunno man. WC3, Brood War, Sim City 3/4, Homeworld 1/2, etc still work for me

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