I KNEW the movie would flop

[Darktbs]

I'm sorry, but Orcs in this movie are pure, unadulterated, elementally evil.

They are suposed to be much more evil.

[BenBos]

And then the writing falls apart when you have the "noble orcs who arent bad" constantly being bad. Sargeras' reasoning itself is bad and relies on him being an idiot. The good guys are good because they are supposed to be good. The bad guys are bad because they are supposed to be bad. New villains are often good guys who suddenlly become evil for little to no reason. That is how Warcraft works. The difference is that Warcraft is much more about the heroes and villains and neither of the two ever grow as characters. If they do ever grow, its always a sudden alignment shift.

Well after reading this, I am quite sure you never even touched one book of Warcraft did you ?

Actually I read several Dragon Lance books, the original Lord of the Rings almost 40 years ago, The Hobbit book and several Warcraft novels.

One book I still find awesome is by Metzen himself, For Blood and Honour. It is a small novel but it touched me deep inside. It is about this Paladin who due to his friendhip with an Orc looses all his titles, castle and Paladin powers. Great story telling about racism, friendship and freedom.

The novel ends when years later the father returns - incognito - to watch his son being sworn in as a Paladin.

He lost all contact with his family and now has to live as an outlaw.

Of course the book ends but not the story ... as it unfolds over the next few years in the games... The old Paladin will see his son dying while being in the power of evil and a Templar .... and so he seeks revenge in the Litch King etc ...

There simply are no such HUGE story lines and backgrounds in Lotr or The Hobbit because the lore of Warcraft has so much MORE individual stories by the side ...

It is a complete different experience and now I like this kind of Lore story telling far more.

You can switch between novels, books or in game meetings. Quite unique really even for an old guy like me.

I do NOT like the fairy tales aka Star Wars or Lotr anymore. They were great 30+ years ago, but these days they simply bore me endlessly... with their good/evil clichés.

Start reading The Last Guardian or Lord of the Clans too.

[Tackhisis]

Durotan and the frostwolves are not evil.

But they are, as the rest of the Orcs. Show me how collaborating with a Nazi-like dictator is "not evil"?

[Nyel]

Now all crawl back under your rocks please and get a life, instead of being a Warcraft hater.

It is SOOOOOOO PATHETIC to hate a game or game company really. Oh and by the way: on imdb the movie still is on a 7.5 rating, which makes the US "critics" morons really.

I'm not a hater, I am just talking about how the movie did in the theaters and it did not good except in China and few other markets.

I don't hate Blizzard, I don't hate WoW and I don't hate Warcraft: The Beginning. But I can acknowledge a bad movie and I will keep talking about it as long as I want to.

[Relapses]

I'm not a hater, I am just talking about how the movie did in the theaters and it did not good except in China and few other markets.

I don't hate Blizzard, I don't hate WoW and I don't hate Warcraft: The Beginning. But I can acknowledge a bad movie and I will keep talking about it as long as I want to.

That's exactly what a Warcraft hater would say!

[Nyel]

And it's sequel will be glorious.

Yes, on the paper, because it's unlikely that there will ever be a second feature in the WC universe.

[Toppy]

Well after reading this, I am quite sure you never even touched one book of Warcraft did you ?

Actually I read several Dragon Lance books, the original Lord of the Rings almost 40 years ago, The Hobbit book and several Warcraft novels.

One book I still find awesome is by Metzen himself, For Blood and Honour. It is a small novel but it touched me deep inside. It is about this Paladin who due to his friendhip with an Orc looses all his titles, castle and Paladin powers. Great story telling about racism, friendship and freedom.

The novel ends when years later the father returns - incognito - to watch his son being sworn in as a Paladin.

He lost all contact with his family and now has to live as an outlaw.

Of course the book ends but not the story ... as it unfolds over the next few years in the games... The old Paladin will see his son dying while being in the power of evil and a Templar .... and so he seeks revenge in the Litch King etc ...

There simply are no such HUGE story lines and backgrounds in Lotr or The Hobbit because the lore of Warcraft has so much MORE individual stories by the side ...

It is a complete different experience and now I like this kind of Lore story telling far more.

You can switch between novels, books or in game meetings. Quite unique really even for an old guy like me.

I do NOT like the fairy tales aka Star Wars or Lotr anymore. They were great 30+ years ago, but these days they simply bore me endlessly... with their good/evil clichés.

Start reading The Last Guardian or Lord of the Clans too.

I've read most of the Warcraft books.

They are all fairly cliche or contradictory. The heroes never grow by novels end, or if they do they dont anywhere else and thus, contradiction.

[Nyel]

That's exactly what a Warcraft hater would say!

Call me a hater, doesn't change facts.

You can call someone who's read nearly every novel, played every WC and WoW for 12 years now a hater or you can just accept that I am a Warcraft fan but no fan of the (bad) movie at all.

For the movie... let them have a profit of $50 million, that's nothing for a movie like this. Nobody will ever greenlight another Warcraft movie with the budget of The Beginning. And imagine what a lower budget and marketing would do to the end result of the movie - nothing good.

Oh and talking about WoW novels... you realize they're all literally the same? Just read Wolfheart and Thrall two weeks ago, I liked both (I like every WC novel) but they're all the same.

[Deleted]

Call me a hater, doesn't change facts.

You can call someone who's read nearly every novel, played every WC and WoW for 12 years now a hater or you can just accept that I am a Warcraft fan but no fan of the (bad) movie at all.

Movie was better than the novels but ok.

[BenBos]

Quote or a more recent article (than yours) from June 27

"However a fantastic campaign outside of the Us has pushed Warcraft over the $400 million mark to $412 million. If you go by the industry rule-of-thumb (that a movie needs to do 2.5x its budget in order to turn a profit), Warcraft is now making money. Expect to hear news of a sequel soon."

The Warcraft production budget is 160 million. the 2.5 factor is based on marketing, distribution and theater profits costs.

That means there is no discussion possible. Since Warcraft in China was distributed by the SAME company that owns the theaters (hence MORE net revenue).

Not even including the next few weeks and months of revenue generated by DVD/Blue Ray etc ...

And btw you are acting silly if you think 110 million dollars were invested on marketing: what an idiot you are...

[Relapses]

Call me a hater, doesn't change facts.

You can call someone who's read nearly every novel, played every WC and WoW for 12 years now a hater or you can just accept that I am a Warcraft fan but no fan of the (bad) movie at all.

Psst...^{it was sarcasm.}

I'm just as tired of the countless No True Scotsman logical fallacies which crop up in this thread every five to ten pages but I guess it's not too surprising there are people so completely blinded by their love of the Warcraft universe they're completely oblivious to the painful reality in front of them.

[BenBos]

I've read most of the Warcraft books.

They are all fairly cliche or contradictory. The heroes never grow by novels end, or if they do they dont anywhere else and thus, contradiction.

You are a liar. I can simply state this by your words... How would you call Arthas, a non evolving character ? LOL

[Nyel]

Movie was better than the novels but ok.

Uuuuuuuhm no.

- - - Updated - - -

Psst...^{it was sarcasm.}

Well... okay.

[BenBos]

No, the 2.5 is based on a rule of thumb that holds true if a movie has a small advertising budget. Studios get around half the box office. To make a profit you add production to marketing and multiply by 2. You trying to claim a rule of thumb is a steadfast rule is getting sad at this point.

Well a rule of thumb is far better than making silly 100.000.000 thumbs in the air estimates.

Oh btw, the Studio of Warcraft owns practically ALL theaters in China ...

So the 2.5 factor is more likely a 2.1 factor since ... the profits go to the same mother company.

Typical : deny everything as a WoW hate boy.

Get a life instead of inventing 110.000.000 bucks on marketing, which of course is a complete JOKE for anyone with a functioning brain.

160 million production costs times 2.5 for ALL extras IS the rule of thumb ... and even neglecting the mother company in the case of Warcraft manages almost all Chinese theaters too ...

[Nyel]

You are a liar. I can simply state this by your words... How would you call Arthas, a non evolving character ? LOL

And now please think about Malfurion and Thrall. In every novel they are weak and become strong and when I read the next novel with or about them they are weak again and become strong again although those novels are chronological...

- - - Updated - - -

So the 2.5 factor is more likely a 2.1 factor since ... the profits go to the same mother company.

I would rather say it's a factor of 2.081728.

[quras]

Well a rule of thumb is far better than making silly 100.000.000 thumbs in the air estimates.

Most block buster movies are costing around 100M to market. Warcraft is no different in this case.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...ruggles-721818

The cost of wacraft in marketing is higher then you are willing to believe.

and actually you're low balling it. The current rule of thumb is 373% of the budget as stated here:
https://storyality.wordpress.com/201...on-investment/

You may not like it or want to accept it but that doesn't really matter.

Oh btw, the Studio of Warcraft owns practically ALL theaters in China ...

So the 2.5 factor is more likely a 2.1 factor since ... the profits go to the same mother company.

Typical : deny everything as a WoW hate boy.

Get a life instead on inventing 110.000.000 bucks on marketing, which if course is a complete JOKE for anyone with a functioning brain.

In this case it wont make much of a difference because of contract made well before legendary was bought. Those contracts do not get changed because the company was bought. For a future movie you might be right. For this case. You are not.

[BenBos]

Most block buster movies are costing around 100M to market. Warcraft is no different in this case.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...ruggles-721818

The cost of wacraft in marketing is higher then you are willing to believe.



In this case it wont make much of a difference because of contract made well before legendary was bought. Those contracts do not get changed because the company was bought. For a future movie you might be right. For this case. You are not.

Wrong.

The mother company took over way before the movie was launched, around 8 months ago.

So the truth is that the total extra costs for marketing and deduction of theater profits is calculated into the fiscal year of Wang.

nice try, but it only means that Warcaft made more profit by the simple fact the mother company also was thee distributor AND owner of the theaters in China.

The 2.5 factor is the standard, but clearly that standard of extra costs is MUCH LOWER for the China distribution.



So it is rather far lower than 160 million x 2.5 to make a profit.

With 500 million incoming with extra DVD, the count is correct: around 80 -100 million or 20% profits.

[Huehuecoyotl]

And btw you are acting silly if you think 110 million dollars were invested on marketing: what an idiot you are...

You have the marketing figures to hand, do you? Because that number, far from being plucked out of the air, is the one being used across a number of industry sources. Do you know how much TV adverts cost in the western world? That figure sounds a lot, but once you start chewing up advertising time and space it gets eaten up pretty damn quickly.

Oh, and describing someone as an idiot because they disagree with you? Doesn't suggest that you can rely on your arguments much, and really makes me question that you are as old as you keep suggesting (in his forties or fifties?).

[quras]

Wrong.

The mother company took over way before the movie was launched, around 8 months ago.

So the truth is that the total extra costs for marketing and deduction of theater profits is calculated into the fiscal year of Wang.

nice try, but it only means that Warcaft made more profit by the simple fact the mother company also was thee distributor AND owner of the theaters in China.

The 2.5 factor is the standard, but clearly that standard of extra costs is MUCH LOWER for the China distribution.

That shows just how little you know and who all wants a cut and who all had contracts well before legendary was recently bought VS how long the movie was in development. They all want their cut

There are more companies than just Wanda Group and it's american based subsudeary Legendary in teh mix. There are financial backers in China, including Internet giant Tencent, state-run China Film Group and the Huayi Bros. studio and that doesn't include universal who also wants their cut.

Again, those contracts do not get changed because of legendary being bought. Those smaller studios still want to be paid. No one company wanted to take on warcraft for fear of it being a loss so they got multiple backers so no one company would have to take a hit but that also means they all want their share. It does not all go back to Legendary or Wanda Group.

and thats before I get into the massive marketing that was done everywhere but the U.S.

"Legendary inked deals with more than two dozen major marketing partners including Jeep, Intel, Lenovo, an insurance company and an herbal tea maker, resulting in a juggernaut of promotional muscle."

With marketing skyrocketing in costs already thats huge. Especially when you see just what was done for China and Uk alone from here:
http://variety.com/2016/film/asia/te...-s-1201794300/

Unprecedented cost of marketing to hit the one area they had to have success in so they made it happen. AKA the power of marketing and a fanatic fanbase like no other.

I love this quote on it:
"“People think this would just sell itself,” Loehr added. “But it actually took a lot of work." They worked their asses to just get it to where it is and very clearly spent a whole lot more than initially reported in budget. You can bet marketing hit the same higher expenditures.

A future movie with fewer backers might do better overall or even in China but this one doesn't fall into that category. To many hands in the pot.

So it is rather far lower than 160 million x 2.5 to make a profit.

With 500 million incoming with extra DVD, the count is correct: around 80 -100 million or 20% profits.

This movie needed every bit of 500M to even get close to break even, if it was even possible for it to ever make a profit (given the sideways accounting most movies get).

The 18M for the stream and DVD sales might get it close to a break even point but there not in the busienss to break even or make a couple million.

Your 160M x2.5 isn't even in the realm of what was needed. You're going to have to try harder or imagine more because you're way off base.

[Plehnard]

Pacific Rim had a much smaller advertising budget.

Since there are no real numbers on the PR advertising that's just an assumption. The only thing we know for sure is that it did cost 30million more in production while getting 11Million (current stand) less at the Box office worldwide.