Questions about why EU needs immigrants.

[Shadowspire]

Ok so one of the arguments ppl say EU needs immigrants is because of the aging workforce. And I've been trying to think about this but m6 mind says the same thing. Isn't there about to be 1-2 generations coming out of EU college who can fill those gaps better then immigrants? And even then, if you are talking about when they age out, is it not possible to encourage those generations to breed at least 3 kids a household? ( going off simple math) so it adds 1 person in the next generation to replace the parents? Also besides a shrinking army fuel....what is so bad about having a small population? This debate never really gets to me as a reason but more of a excuse....so can someone who might not be so emotional and knee-jerk reactiony explain.

[Azadina]

Immigrant is not the same as refugee. Just to correct it right away.

[Deleted]

More people entering higher education = less people wanting to work low paying menial jobs.

[Shadowspire]

More people entering higher education = less people wanting to work low paying menial jobs.

What counts as a minimal job? And nother everyone passes college and also some degrees don't work right of college soooooo...

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Immigrant is not the same as refugee. Just to correct it right away.

Meh ppl want them to become legal immigrants so just calling them as their goal title.

[Independent voter]

I'll send you guys some instructional videos.

[Bonkbonk100]

Because they're super nice people.

[Theodarzna]

Ok so one of the arguments ppl say EU needs immigrants is because of the aging workforce. And I've been trying to think about this but m6 mind says the same thing. Isn't there about to be 1-2 generations coming out of EU college who can fill those gaps better then immigrants? And even then, if you are talking about when they age out, is it not possible to encourage those generations to breed at least 3 kids a household? ( going off simple math) so it adds 1 person in the next generation to replace the parents? Also besides a shrinking army fuel....what is so bad about having a small population? This debate never really gets to me as a reason but more of a excuse....so can someone who might not be so emotional and knee-jerk reactiony explain.

Its less about an aging workforce but about wages for the current workforce going up. The value of properties would begin to drop and wages start to rise for the young, but that isn't ideal if you say are in power at this time.

If you're a land baron or employers or just someone who likes the lower prices brought on by cheap labour you want to bring in immigrants because its a win-win for the powerful.

1) Cheap labour by depressed wages and increasing the labour pool.

2) Inflating housing prices by ensuring constant demands

3) You get to pat yourself on the back like you did some noble thing, even though the costs of immigration will not be borne by you.

[Shadowspire]

Its less about an aging workforce but about wages for the current workforce going up. The value of properties would begin to drop and wages start to rise for the young, but that isn't ideal if you say are in power at this time.

If you're a land baron or employers or just someone who likes the lower prices brought on by cheap labour you want to bring in immigrants because its a win-win for the powerful.

1) Cheap labour by depressed wages and increasing the labour pool.

2) Inflating housing prices by ensuring constant demands

3) You get to pat yourself on the back like you did some noble thing, even though the costs of immigration will not be borne by you.

I was really hoping it wasn't about money for the powerful.....

[Bollocks]

Ok so one of the arguments ppl say EU needs immigrants is because of the aging workforce. And I've been trying to think about this but m6 mind says the same thing. Isn't there about to be 1-2 generations coming out of EU college who can fill those gaps better then immigrants? And even then, if you are talking about when they age out, is it not possible to encourage those generations to breed at least 3 kids a household? ( going off simple math) so it adds 1 person in the next generation to replace the parents? Also besides a shrinking army fuel....what is so bad about having a small population? This debate never really gets to me as a reason but more of a excuse....so can someone who might not be so emotional and knee-jerk reactiony explain.

Someone looked at the data of ALL workers in Denmark and did a study on this and concluded that with lots of immigrants coming native people tend to go to higher education jobs.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w19315.pdf
So there seems to be that when immigrants enter to a country they take low skilled jobs that no one wants and pushes native population to higher skill jobs.

Though I don't know about the situation in the EU, but in most of the continent in America immigration of all sorts tend to end in a net positive.

Also don't listen to theodarzna she/he is convinced that the higher classes and neoliberalism have the explicit mission on destroying the poor.

[Azadina]

I was really hoping it wasn't about money for the powerful.....

When is politics anything but that?

[Independent voter]

It's abortions. Back when abortion was illegal and frowned upon there were a lot of babies, yes unwanted babies, born.

I'm hoping we reach some kind of equilibrium and not just shrink and shrink in population until we disappear. We have the problem in the US but not as bad and our immigrants make up the difference and then some. Our religious breed like rabbits.

[Theodarzna]

I was really hoping it wasn't about money for the powerful.....

People in power rarely do things out of the goodness of their own hearts.

While the world rightly should be unwinding, these power countries are trying very hard to hold onto the good years to make up for the fact that these Neo-Liberal economies can't seem to cause people the breed enough to maintain a stable population.

Unwilling to admit ideological flaws, or unconcerned with them, they wish merely to maintain the status quo which keeps the cash flowing, for now.

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Someone looked at the data of ALL workers in Denmark and did a study on this and concluded that with lots of immigrants coming native people tend to go to higher education jobs.
http://www.nber.org/papers/w19315.pdf

Though I don't know about the situation in the EU, but in most of the continent in America immigration of all sorts tend to end in a net positive.
Also don't listen to theodezrna she/he is convinced that the higher classes and neoliberalism have the explicit mission on destroying the poor.

Destruction? No, just indifference.

However, should I be the person to look at the not so subtle racism of white people believing they are too good to pick up their own trash? Best to import someone else, its not suitable for those of OUR stock to do it right?

[Granyala]

It's abortions. Back when abortion was illegal and frowned upon there were a lot of babies, yes unwanted babies, born.

I think it's more the fact that career plans and kids don't mesh that well.

More of the indigenous population wants white collar career jobs and kids often are .. in the way. So they chose not to have kids.
Immigrants are often relegated to low level work and also they seem to breed like crazy. Not sure why, but maybe because they still see having a big family as something positive compared to "me no have time for kids".

[pmkaboo]

dont know, but i cant shake the feeling that shit is going to hit the fan real hard in the next couple of years.

[Granyala]

dont know, but i cant shake the feeling that shit is going to hit the fan real hard in the next couple of years.

It already has.

[Drungan]

What counts as a minimal job? And nother everyone passes college and also some degrees don't work right of college soooooo...

Take a walk outside and have a look around.....

Fast food workers, garbage collectors, farm workers, basic builders, garden work, etc. etc. nothing wrong with the work but people that ain't forced to take them won't.

Pretty sure that's the same in the US where you seem to be from.

So both the EU and the US needs immigrants to fill those jobs.

there is a whole nother issue about * what if those low paying jobs did pay more so more wanted them* talk but that is pretty complex and comes down to what are you willing to pay for your bread, tomatoes and fast food ? and how greedy are the companies that make that ..... answers is ofc. you will pay as little as possible and very. but that is just how the world spins.

think about it next time you head out for dinner some place ..... do you pick the place that are cheap ( and good ) or the more pricy place that are equal as good but pays there workers better ? ... i know what most people pick * BUT WHY PAY MORE FOR THE *SAME* * becurse it is not the same

[Bollocks]

Destruction? No, just indifference.

However, should I be the person to look at the not so subtle racism of white people believing they are too good to pick up their own trash? Best to import someone else, its not suitable for those of OUR stock to do it right?

I explicity said of all countries in America and I assume this goes to other countries, or even in the own country take for example Peru in the recent years immigration from poorer sides of the coutnry flooded Lima and the only solution was to give them jobs that were in dire demand (in this case construction workers)and by giving them so they generated the construction boom effectively skyrocketing Peruvian economy, so I don't know where the racism comes.

[Kraenen]

"Demographic winter" is ironically a scare word used by the left. You wouldn't think they'd want more people in the world, especially in the west. And you don't solve the problem by importing mass amounts of people who are significantly different from them. I don't have much fear in western populations going down, and with automation advancing rapidly we really don't need cheap labour anymore. If we need labour that badly, it will just spur innovation.

[Shadowspire]

I think it's more the fact that career plans and kids don't mesh that well.

More of the indigenous population wants white collar career jobs and kids often are .. in the way. So they chose not to have kids.
Immigrants are often relegated to low level work and also they seem to breed like crazy. Not sure why, but maybe because they still see having a big family as something positive compared to "me no have time for kids".

But most humans enjoy the act of making one, how hard is it for one generation to just not be taught to use contraceptives , if birth to death ratio is that bad. Also maybe make babysitters a more prominent job in the workplace.l, maybe such a selfish attitude wouldn't be a thing then.

[Granyala]

think about it next time you head out for dinner some place ..... do you pick the place that are cheap ( and good ) or the more pricy place that are equal as good but pays there workers better ? ... i know what most people pick * BUT WHY PAY MORE FOR THE *SAME* * becurse it is not the same

Problem: the more expensive place probably isn't more expensive because they pay their workers better, but because the management can get away with larger profit margins. :X

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But most humans enjoy the act of making one.

Most humans enjoy f*** each others brains out.
Only a tiny fraction enjoys the whole baby thing and seeks it on purpose.

I certainly never want to have children (genetic reasons).