[7.0] New Paladin Abilities and Talents

[Aerknard]

Mechanically though it's nothing special. At least, not without Prot-exclusive talents.

About that prot exclusive talent, do you remember Charge of the Crusader?
That shoud be Retribution talent. Blizz can do it if they want. The problem is the so called "Class Fantasy" which result "Greater Colossal Mass Judgement of Lothar's Might".
It's hilarious they can keep that "Class Fantasy" while denying Paladin is a Warrior of Light.

[Shorteh]

Has there been any official updates regarding the Holy Paladin cast animation changes that they’ve talked about during the early days of the Legion announcement?
I believe initially they planned to redo our cast animation, and that we would have the hammer on our back and the libram in our hand while waving our other hand around “reading” the book. (Think TBC intro)
Are we still intended to get that libram animation? As it stands now the libram sits on my belt, and the hammer artifact seems to inconsistently move from and to my back.
If the libram animation was scratched, did they talk about making the hammer more consistent during casting? E.g. always out when unsheathed or always on the back when sheathed.

As it stands now even in the latest beta build, some spells explicitly use the hammer in their animation, some keep the hammer out as you cast (if you’ve got your weapon unsheathed e.g. Holy Shock) and some instantly teleport it to your back.
It looks rather weird.

[Aerknard]

It seems like Blizzard won't adding any spell anymore. They are only playing with number.

Crusader Strike buff to 220%
Judgement buff to 250%
Blade of Wrath nerf to 7.5 sec
Consecration nerf to 12 sec (even if the uptime is still 100%, the damage is still the same resulting the weaker and slower consecration to deal damage)
Crusade buff to 3% (but still weaker than build 21691 which is 5%)
divine hammer nerf to 12 sec (same with consecration)
Greater Judgement buff to target above 50%
TFoJ nerf to 1 sec reduction and 15% proc
Word of Glory buff to 900% (still weaker than build 21531)
Zeal buff to 330%
Blade of Justice nerf to 10,5 sec (It's nerf because the previous build 340%/8=42,5% sec vs now for 400%/10.5=38,06%)
[I almost fool by it, thinking it's a buff. Thx for my guild mate point the dps)

Still no gapcloser

edit: my bad there is still Highlord Judgement Nerf from 15% to 8% at level 1
The scores are 4 buff, 2 questionable buff, and 6 nerf

[Triggered Fridgekin]

and higher CDs to boot!

[Aeluron Lightsong]

FML nerfing Fires of Justice. We're slower...AGAIN. We got damage buffs sure but we're slower. God damn it Blizz.

[Matt0193]

It's hilarious they can keep that "Class Fantasy" while denying Paladin is a Warrior of Light.

Nah, they've got it right. We're Warriors, because we've got Colossus Smash, and we're light on utility! Working as intended.

[Ulthane]

Not sure why they would screw the consecration cd like that... at the very least with such a high cd give it the Blade of Wrath treatment. Instant damage followed by damage over time.

[Matt0193]

Not sure why they would screw the consecration cd like that... at the very least with such a high cd give it the Blade of Wrath treatment. Instant damage followed by damage over time.

I'd at least expect Consecrator functionality on a 12s CD. Right now it's a liability unless you can guarantee the mobs won't leave it, especially as you'd taking it as a talent over 2 reliable choices.

[Ulthane]

I'd at least expect Consecrator functionality on a 12s CD. Right now it's a liability unless you can guarantee the mobs won't leave it, especially as you'd taking it as a talent over 2 reliable choices.

Exactly, they really kinda screwed the pooch here....

[ruiizu]

I'd at least expect Consecrator functionality on a 12s CD. Right now it's a liability unless you can guarantee the mobs won't leave it, especially as you'd taking it as a talent over 2 reliable choices.

The damage is the same with 12 sec as well, so it's literally a damage nerf both to the net damage done per time and a liability because mobs move in raids and pvp.

[Daralii]

They want our gameplay slower so we have time to throw out some Flash of Ligh- wait no, I mean so we can scan people's HP and see who needs Blessing of Sacri- damn, forget I said that, it's so we look around and see other targets so we can easily switch our DPS to another tar- f**k it, nevermind

I don't even mean ret, I mean DPS in general. It's been blanket nerfs either to damage, survivability, or speed for most specs in the last several builds. It's like they're deliberately trying to make everything take longer just by making us worse at our roles.

[Reghame]

The damage is the same with 12 sec as well, so it's literally a damage nerf both to the net damage done per time and a liability because mobs move in raids and pvp.

not quite, thats a tooltip error. the SP value per tick is the same but the amount of ticks was increased by 3. its actually a sizable buff since it wont clash AS HARD as it use to.
Same for TfoJ talent, not really nerfed. the cooldown nerf on the talent actually does nothing since you are still swimming in CS charges, where as before you spend a lot of your time at 2 charges of CS and nothing to show for it. Now CS was buffed and your still in tons of charges so its actually just a buff with minor changes to the talent to make it not cringe worthy in terms of wasting power.
ES change is huge, it allows you to cast ES on CD with little worry of it not falling in a judge window, a slight buff in this regard.

And more importantly greater judge. Despite the artifact nerf hitting judge slightly (even with the buff to judge, its still a slight hit in damage for it) having this talent make judge crit above 50% hp is a very nice change and a noticeable one at that.

[Ulthane]

@Reghame thank you for clarification

[Aeluron Lightsong]

With Blade of Justice having a higher CD then what it used to be, there will be more down time(10.5 second CD). I am not confident that they'll be enough haste to even reduce it to just a 10 second cooldown(Like ffs man). As for Crusader Strike, it won't go down to 3.00 at least maybe mid of Legion leveling(That's a out of my ass estimate). You didn't really sit on a bunch of CS charges.

I don't know how anyone could be that. We only have 2 charges and now so little time. You'd be better off taking Blade of Wrath(AGAIN) for less down time). Fires of Justice should of stayed at the 1.5 CD reduction.

Crusade buff is nice but I'm not confident that people want to have an super fluid rotation in a cooldown that's already hindered by ramp up and trying to get as many Tvs in a Judgement window. Appreciate the buffs for CS and Judgement but still, rotational issues are still there. Revert TFOJ plox.


5/10 Patch Needs more cowbell

[Reghame]

With Blade of Justice having a higher CD then what it used to be, there will be more down time(10.5 second CD). I am not confident that they'll be enough haste to even reduce it to just a 10 second cooldown(Like ffs man). As for Crusader Strike, it won't go down to 3.00 at least maybe mid of Legion leveling(That's a out of my ass estimate). You didn't really sit on a bunch of CS charges.

I don't know how anyone could be that. We only have 2 charges and now so little time. You'd be better off taking Blade of Wrath(AGAIN) for less down time). Fires of Justice should of stayed at the 1.5 CD reduction.

Crusade buff is nice but I'm not confident that people want to have an super fluid rotation in a cooldown that's already hindered by ramp up and trying to get as many Tvs in a Judgement window. Appreciate the buffs for CS and Judgement but still, rotational issues are still there. Revert TFOJ plox.


5/10 Patch Needs more cowbell

its not much of anything really, both the changes to the cooldowns were to make it not have that odd interaction of always coming off CD right after a GCD. it should always be usable after another skill instead of that odd .5 second wait or so you occasionally had to do if pressing right off CD.

[Deleted]

So I don't get what that means exactly. Do we have to stats more in favor of haste ? Or forget it and main mastery ?
I wait waiting in my priorities, it feels so dull... almost as if I did something wrong and shouldn't be happening.

I have another question! Shoud we focus on throwing Judgement whenever it's off cooldown ? Even if that means getting less HP spenders in the Coloss-... Judgement window ? Like... imagine you're at 0 HP but Judg is up. But I've also BoW/BoJ up and CS. What would be the priority ? I have a hard time finding it guys, halp!

[Teleros]

@Asrandor - basically it's all in a state of flux still, so I think it's best just to wait and see until Solsacra etc have done all the number crunching.

[Kabsal]

I have another question! Shoud we focus on throwing Judgement whenever it's off cooldown ? Even if that means getting less HP spenders in the Coloss-... Judgement window ? Like... imagine you're at 0 HP but Judg is up. But I've also BoW/BoJ up and CS. What would be the priority ? I have a hard time finding it guys, halp!

I've found the following to work pretty well on the PTR with TFoJ and BoW. The same basic structure works with DH/Zeal cleave build, but a little slower.
1) Judge if Judgment is off CD. Exception only if mob is about to die or you have zero HP on a pull (usually you'll never have Judgment available to cast and no HP mid fight; see below).
2) JV if Judgment debuff is on enemy and DP has procced. It's worse per HP than TV, but it's still a heavier hit than TV for using up DP procs. Ignore this if you don't have both DP and JV.
3) ES if off CD at any 3+ HP if Judgment has less than 4 sec left on CD. This is the best way I can guarantee always getting the buff timing. However it's awkward enough that I recommend just sticking with FV instead (I don't love Consecration and haven't tried factoring it in).
4) TV if Judgment debuff is on enemy and you have 4 or 5 HP.
5) BoW/J to refill HP if available.
6) CS/Zeal as filler.

Because of DP and the general way the rotation works, you'll usually end a Judge window with 2/3 HP (you can maybe squeeze an extra TV into the end of a window; this doesn't throw things off as much as you'd expect). You then fill up to 5 (3ish if you were greedy last window) at almost the exact instant that Judgment comes off CD. What I almost never end up with is a period where I'm just waiting around at 5 HP with Judgment unavailable for more than a half second.

[Ashelorh]

I was looking through my talent tree and found a really cool ability. "Deals Holy damage to up to 4 enemies within 10 yards equal to 200% of your missing health. Deals 50% of missing health against enemy players." This effectively removes the judgement mechanic, because you can just kill yourself and stop having to deal with this rotation.

[Snegovik]

Yes, it is, but you get to ride your pony in combat!! nobody else gets to do that!

I will take a poop animation sprint on shorter cd that grands you immunity to movement impairing affects, like several melees have over our shiny pony of failure.

I get that a lot of ppl care about animations and how cool they look (so do i, but to a minor degree). I believe animations should not "balance" out against our capability and a toolkit to preform on par with other top dogs in the playground. Hence, i care for results =) rather than how cool an ability looks. As CT Fletcher likes to say: you have a diet not for the taste, but for the results it will give you, stfu and eat that shit! Lol, i am same way when it comes to WoW balancing/specs: I play a spec for a set expectation aka i want to be able to kill with ease because i outskill them on my Ret =) not being kited by them cuz my only REAL gap closer is 45 sec cd.

Edit: Who did report Storm again? Are we going to have another week of boredom with sunshine and flowers =X?

- - - Updated - - -

So I don't get what that means exactly. Do we have to stats more in favor of haste ? Or forget it and main mastery ?
I wait waiting in my priorities, it feels so dull... almost as if I did something wrong and shouldn't be happening.

I have another question! Shoud we focus on throwing Judgement whenever it's off cooldown ? Even if that means getting less HP spenders in the Coloss-... Judgement window ? Like... imagine you're at 0 HP but Judg is up. But I've also BoW/BoJ up and CS. What would be the priority ? I have a hard time finding it guys, halp!

Dep are you talking about PvP or PvE? If PvE, I cant suggest much, but from PvP pov pretty much when ever you are not in melee range you want be spamming that Judgement (unless ES is off cd and you got HPs to spend), since in pvp you will be kited a LOT, judgement and "W" button will become you best friends, so yes in PvP always use judgement if you are not @ melee range, also do not worry about 8 sec window, since in PvP it is 30 sec per judgement not 8 sec, so you don't have to worry about bashing ur head against the wall to figure out perfect rotation for a 8 sec CS gameplay =) as a PvPer