Louisiana officer shoots man on ground (NSA graphic video)

[infinitemeridian]

No matter what? You say this as if their life wasn't in danger... He has a gun, has a violent past and record, he resisted arrest, and allegedly reached for a gun.

If they perceive their life, or the life of an innocent, is in danger, yes, as a last resort they can shoot to kill.

I never said they are heroes. Where the fuck do you keep getting these things from? You have this fucked up strawman of me that you desperately want to burn... I don't defend all cops. Hell, I'm not even trying to defend these guys, but people like you fail to see that shit can go south in less than a second. And nothing I've said is so fucking far fetched and out of the realm of possibilities.

Again, realm of possibilities does not equal realm of probabilities. You can't accept the latter without accepting the former. Shit can go south anytime anywhere. I could accidentally cut my wrists open with the bottle I'm holding right now. Does that mean I need to break the bottle? What if I'm drunk? Does that warrant me more likely to break the bottle, because it might drop and create glass shards?

And yes, no matter what. Criminals will likely carry weapons. Your first action should be to assess that they:

A) Have a weapon
B) Are likely to use that weapon
C) CAN use that weapon

From this case, neither of those options seem to be obvious. Also, I'd like a source to back up that he for sure had a gun and also that he had a criminal record.

[urasim]

And if they knew he

A) Had a gun
B) Knew where it was

They should have taken the necessary precautions, not resort to shooting him at the slightest twitch.

How can you deduce they knew where it was when nowhere in the footage it's shown? Maybe because they saw it when he was reaching for it and then they yelled "he's got a gun"?????

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Again, realm of possibilities does not equal realm of probabilities. You can't accept the latter without accepting the former.

And yes, no matter what. Criminals will likely carry weapons. Your first action should be to assess that they:

A) Have a weapon
B) Are likely to use that weapon
C) CAN use that weapon

From this case, neither of those options seem to be obvious. First of all, I'd like a source to back up that he for sure had a gun and also that he had a criminal record.

I'm so glad we have a police expert here to tell us all what should have happened in these extremely brief posts.

When you have a second to react you don't think of possibilities or probabilities. You see a gun and you react. I feel like they reacted poorly to the whole thing, but so did the criminal.

[Wells]

Face down? Okay, you didn't actually watch the video. You just conceded everything with that one stupid slip up.

You're really doing a good job ignoring that your argument is that the cops were too incompetent not to kill him.

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Second video has surfaced.

Doesn't look much better for the cops.

[Melkandor]

No matter what? You say this as if their life wasn't in danger... He has a gun, has a violent past and record, he resisted arrest, and allegedly reached for a gun.

If they perceive their life, or the life of an innocent, is in danger, yes, as a last resort they can shoot to kill.

I never said they are heroes. Where the fuck do you keep getting these things from? You have this fucked up strawman of me that you desperately want to burn... I don't defend all cops. Hell, I'm not even trying to defend these guys, but people like you fail to see that shit can go south in less than a second. And nothing I've said is so fucking far fetched and out of the realm of possibilities.

Holy shit the mental gymnastics are real in this thread.

[InventiveMeasures]

What have I said that's delusional, again? You can clearly see his arm being free... Your bias is blinding you. Your previous posts even show you are emotionally invested. Maybe it's time to step back and breath.

My bias, that's so adorable. No, I just do well in acknowledging a bullshit defense that makes no sense. If you're going to try one, put some logic behind it.

[Tygor]

At least the cops shot him like 7 times from a foot away, just in case he was able to reach into his pocket to get his gun, right? In the 2nd video the cops had to really get into the pocket to take the gun from his pocket.

If these cops are acquitted, the country is going to riot worse than Missouri. I'm actually a little afraid of that.

[Melkandor]

If these cops are acquitted, the country is going to riot worse than Missouri. I'm actually a little afraid of that.

And rightfully so. These cops need to rot in jail

[urasim]

My bias, that's so adorable. No, I just do well in acknowledging a bullshit defense that makes no sense. If you're going to try one, put some logic behind it.

So, you're saying that it's literally impossible for him to get to his gun and shoot at the cops? Are you saying that the cops should just let that happen and not fire a gun even if their life is in danger? That sure as shit sounds like what you're saying.

You're really doing a good job ignoring that your argument is that the cops were too incompetent not to kill him.

Second video has surfaced.

Doesn't look much better for the cops.

We've all seen that video. That's the one that shows the cops knew what pocket the gun was in... You're really fucking slow today.

Infracted - Keep it civil

[Wells]

We've all seen that video. That's the one that shows the cops knew what pocket the gun was in... You're really fucking slow today.

If the gun was in his pocket then shooting him was entirely unnecessary. Having a gun on you while being arrested isn't cause for lethal force.

[urasim]

At least the cops shot him like 7 times from a foot away, just in case he was able to reach into his pocket to get his gun, right? In the 2nd video the cops had to really get into the pocket to take the gun from his pocket.

If these cops are acquitted, the country is going to riot worse than Missouri. I'm actually a little afraid of that.

Can you count the seconds on how long it took to remove the gun? It's something like .59. That gun was so far up in there that it took that long?

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If the gun was in his pocket then shooting him was entirely unnecessary. Having a gun on you while being arrested isn't cause for lethal force.

Unless he was reaching for it and they saw it... Why do you think they yelled "gun" and knew where it was? Maybe it's because they saw it and saw him reach for it?

[Deleted]

This is that kind of stuff all people on this planet except murricans think:

"well if you over there wouldnt want to wear guns, for your """"SELFPROTECTION"""". Things like that wouldnt happen."

1. its statistically proven that wearing a gun is more dangerous then not wearing it. F. e. because of those situations.
2. you cant protect yourself with it even if you have it. Because if someone is facing you with a gun you die before you are even able to pull your own.

Is Alton Sterling a victim of racist cops and get murdered? We cant tell, we are not part of this investigation and dont know all the facts. But the two things we can tell is:

1. It wasnt necessary to kill him, they could had taken control of him without shooting. Like every other cops in this world are able to.
2. Alton Sterlin is not as innocent on his own death, he weared a gun and from police report he put others under threat with it, thats why the cops where called.

[Wells]

Unless he was reaching for it and they saw it... Why do you think they yelled "gun" and knew where it was? Maybe it's because they saw it and saw him reach for it?

We have two videos of him not reaching for a gun. Either at some point they realized he had a gun on him, or they started yelling gun because they were adrenaline addled and were responding to reports of a gun.

There's simply no evidence to defend the contortions you're engaging in.

[Paranoid Android]

We have two videos of him not reaching for a gun. Either at some point they realized he had a gun on him, or they started yelling gun because they were adrenaline addled and were responding to reports of a gun.

There's simply no evidence to defend the contortions you're engaging in.

Yeah I wonder if the person who yelled gun was the one who shot or the other all "pumped up" heard the words and shot. Still no reason.

[InventiveMeasures]

So, you're saying that it's literally impossible for him to get to his gun and shoot at the cops? Are you saying that the cops should just let that happen and not fire a gun even if their life is in danger? That sure as shit sounds like what you're saying.

I've got news for you. If that's what it "sounds like" I'm saying then that's an issue on your end. I didn't imply that in any of my responses. An officer has to defend himself if he feels his life is in danger. His life was not in danger. The gun wasn't hanging out his pocket, and the barrel wasn't visible. The 1st officer had to dig INTO his pocket to get it out as the man was dying, so right there that defense falls apart. On top of that, he took his forearm out from under the car with his fingers spread.

[urasim]

We have two videos of him not reaching for a gun. Either at some point they realized he had a gun on him, or they started yelling gun because they were adrenaline addled and were responding to reports of a gun.

There's simply no evidence to defend the contortions you're engaging in.

You can see his hand clearly throughout the entire ordeal? No? Then that entire line of reasoning is bullshit and speculative.

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His life was not in danger.

Prove that without a shadow of a doubt. You can't... Because you can't see his hands throughout the entire thing. You're just speculating.

[Wells]

You can see his hand clearly throughout the entire ordeal? No? Then that entire line of reasoning is bullshit and speculative.

No, speculating is claiming he was trying to draw a gun on the officers with no evidence to support such a theory.

[Barnabas]

Can you count the seconds on how long it took to remove the gun? It's something like .59. That gun was so far up in there that it took that long?

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Unless he was reaching for it and they saw it... Why do you think they yelled "gun" and knew where it was? Maybe it's because they saw it and saw him reach for it?

They knew he had a gun before they even got to the convenience store. The issue is the decision to shoot him after they had him on the ground. They shot him for the same reason people shoot each other on the street. Nobody wants to fight anymore. It's easier to shoot someone.

[Blur4stuff]

the 2nd video clearly shows his hands were empty and the gun was in his pocket

shooting him was completely unnecessary given that they had him pinned. he wasn't 20 feet away pulling a gun out of his pocket.

[InventiveMeasures]

You can see his hand clearly throughout the entire ordeal? No? Then that entire line of reasoning is bullshit and speculative.

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Prove that without a shadow of a doubt. You can't... Because you can't see his hands throughout the entire thing. You're just speculating.

It's not speculation. Just to be clear that we're on the same page here, I'll run through a few things and tell me if you agree that you saw and heard these things. The officer straddling him is pushing his shoulder into the ground until he yells, "He's got a gun" where Alton then takes his forearm from under the car and spreads his fingers.

After he grabs his hand, there is no struggling with that arm. The 1st officer says, "If you f**ng move I swear to God" and you just see the 2nd officer yanking his hand toward his body and actively moving his torso back and forth. AGAIN, no movement by Alton. Our shoulders don't move independently from our torso. For him to be reaching for his pocket not only would there be visible movement in his right shoulder moving down but his chest would be wiggling as well. Did you or did you not see and hear those things from the video.

[Darkeon]

the 2nd video clearly shows his hands were empty and the gun was in his pocket

shooting him was completely unnecessary given that they had him pinned. he wasn't 20 feet away pulling a gun out of his pocket.

Coincidentally enough, on the pocket that was on the side that he had his unrestrained arm, underneath the car; as it would seem.

I'm sure you are tough-man enough to be willing to take a registered criminal hand-on-hand, but any other person will fear for their life, if they are trying to pin someone down and see that person reaching for a gun.