Gold Nerfs on the PTR

[Fabinas]

Thanks for writing that up. I only did vague numbers, came up with around 20 000 for a lv 3 Garrison with a mix of lv 2 and 3 buildings and calculate the time it needs to get 8-10 TH, 3 Scavengers, 3 Greasemonkeys to ilv 675 and epic and decided not to build any more lv 3 garrisons on my alts around February.


True. But then sitting in the street begging for money beats playing WoW on every level and working instead of playing beats it even more. It is a choice people make. To the point where some have..what...5, 10, 50 million. Making gold for the sake of it. Gold they can never spend.

February was fine. I levelled 12 more alts around that time for Love is in the Air and then i built lvl 3 garrisons for all. Only 6 Shityards and Harrison Joneses for those 12 alts tho. All have recuperated their costs already and then some.

[WowIsDead64]

What interests me the most - were blueprint and Garrison/Shipyard upgrade gold costs also nerfed or not?

[Fabinas]

I guess so, but I also drew the line at the point where I had one character of every class at 100 with a lv 3 Garrison. I just didn't want to log in to even more characters. As an altoholic who got worse over the years, I still levelled a second Paladin, Priest and Warrior (with a warlock and rogue on the way), but to me that was as far as I would get them with a lv 2 garrison and a proffession hut.

I definitely get you. It has been extremely wearing to log those alts 2-3 times per day just for tables/shityards. SOmetimes i dont even do the daily cooldowns on thems because i can't stand this constant log in/out. Anxiously waiting for the damn pre-patch, so i can be free.

[Esploratore]

Actual value changes (Lootgold) for

Cata25hc:
http://pastebin.com/8tB2v97c

Wotlk25(hc/HM) + Cata25nhc (none):
http://pastebin.com/qSLSyLun

MoP10/25nhc/hc:
http://pastebin.com/SvYVXeTK

Also: Not all items lose vendor value in MoP/Cata/Wrath. Tokens say the same. Rings, Necks & Trinkets also keep their value. For Cata25hc this means ~33% less gold overall. In MoP the additional Lootgold might outweigh the loss in vendorvalue and Wrath becomes slightly more profitable. Looks like Blizzard wants to even out these farming spots.

Since I usually was getting 7,2k gold from cata 25 hcs (I also ran it a lot of time, not sure if as much as you but the difference might be throne related: I skip throne, always) this will become 4,8k, kind of sucks tbh.

Mop basically we get the first 4 raids on 25 normal, seems like they even give more than 25 hcs in some cases other than taking less time and should ignore soo or kill the first 4 on normal or hc, whatever is possible, since droplet from sha non-lfr sells for loads and will continue to do so.

And wotlk I don't know, as far as I remember naxx 25 gave 1.000 gold, ulduar 800, icc 25 hc 600, togc 25 500 and the others had so few bosses they were pathetic, let's assume we get 20 more gold on each naxx boss (300), uld (340, considering all it's 17), icc (240), tocg (100) we indeed get around 1k gain; naxx I doubt kt and gothik are worth doing with the long rp, otherwise I think it's 20 mins due to movement, ulduar at least 30, icc 25, togc 10, 1 hour 25 for 4k gold, not worth it imo, if you consider that currently you get 4k per hour even with 650 geared alts from cata 25 hcs.

Do you have any idea how much you get total from each mop raid in legion on 25 n and how long it takes each?

[Nightstalker]

Since I usually was getting 7,2k gold from cata 25 hcs (I also ran it a lot of time, not sure if as much as you but the difference might be throne related: I skip throne, always) this will become 4,8k, kind of sucks tbh.

Mop basically we get the first 4 raids on 25 normal, seems like they even give more than 25 hcs in some cases other than taking less time and should ignore soo or kill the first 4 on normal or hc, whatever is possible, since droplet from sha non-lfr sells for loads and will continue to do so.

And wotlk I don't know, as far as I remember naxx 25 gave 1.000 gold, ulduar 800, icc 25 hc 600, togc 25 500 and the others had so few bosses they were pathetic, let's assume we get 20 more gold on each naxx boss (300), uld (340, considering all it's 17), icc (240), tocg (100) we indeed get around 1k gain; naxx I doubt kt and gothik are worth doing with the long rp, otherwise I think it's 20 mins due to movement, ulduar at least 30, icc 25, togc 10, 1 hour 25 for 4k gold, not worth it imo, if you consider that currently you get 4k per hour even with 650 geared alts from cata 25 hcs.

Do you have any idea how much you get total from each mop raid in legion on 25 n and how long it takes each?

MSV should be somewhere around 12-15 minutes depending on your performance. 1200-1400 gold.
HoF maybe 15 minutes IF you can kill Ambershaper which has a sick DPS/Burst requirement. Since it has a bit more trash + 6 tokens you should end up with 1400-1600 gold.
ToeS is cleared pretty quick, less than 10mins imo. 900-1000g. And I'm currently waiting for the Ring on each boss. So it should be way less in decent gear.
Throne will take at least 45 minutes depending on your ilvl, well at least at the start. The small adds on Animus might still oneshot you if you can't spread huge DoTs or have an "Immortal"-CD. Don't know if Ra-Den is worth the extra time spend on all bosses on HC instead of NHC, they have ~30% more HP and some crucial mechanics here and there. 2800-3000g.

The general estimate is 200g per boss. 55g + 6 items with an average value of around 25g. token replace an item with 50g instead of 25g.

Can't really tell if 5man gear is enough to do all 25nhc at the start, will test soon with ilvl840. Especially ToT might get interesting here and there. Ambershaper might require a lot more gear for certain specs/classes.

In terms of time I'm looking at ~90 minutes of instance runs and maybe 10mins of travelling. But those are just raw estimates. I'm speedrunning MoP 10man every week: MSV, HoF 4/6 (Ambershaper!!), ToeS, ToT. And from testing 25nhc I can tell that ilvl ~840 delivers a similar performance for at least my specc (Arms Warrior).

Right now I would say that you can speedfarm MoP25nhc with the 2nd Raidtier. And 90mins for about 7k gold would be my prediction. We will see in about a year. At the moment I make ~7.8k in Cata25hc in less than 68 minutes (Entering DS -> Killing Al'Akir) as Horde.

Edit: T16 would only really pay off on mythic. NHC/HC is flex mode which means 2-3 items per boss (solo, <10 players) and 8-9g lootgold. T16M will probably take a lot more time, still only drops 25g per boss and I guess only 5 items. Not only the time will be a factor. Besides Galakras still being unsoloable you have to deal with much bigger DPS requirements. Right now you have to bring Sha of Pride (#4) to <30% in less than ~50 seconds to not get imprisoned and killed. That means at least 450k DPS for almost a minute and not just burst DPS on single-target. They might fix some of the fights for soloing (Imprison, Galakras, Spoils) but it's still a lot of "running around".
Looking at 25g per boss (14) + ~25g per item with 5 items per boss and 10 tokens throughout the entire raid that replace a 25g item with 50g: You're looking at around 2400g+ in an instance that has way higher requirements and takes a lot longer than T15NHC with less pay-off.

[Esploratore]

Mop seems fine from your figures, ambershaper will be indeed a problem seeing as 25 has 3 times the hp 10 normal has and not everyone can solo 10 normal now, however animus, as long as you have a tank spec shouldn't be a big issue on 25, I was already able to solo it on live at 100 without a single mythic item (blood dk however), just had to do a good cd rotation to always have something up, as soon as the adds were dead it was done.

So basically it looks like 4k from wotlk for about 1h 25 (only certain raids ofc), 5k from cata for about 1h, 7k from mop in 1h 30 which overall should give us more farming power on a given realm, 16k is more than double than what we can do right now but also will take twice as much as a weak alt takes now to farm all cata raids; I think it remains stable, then we will have to see how it will be its impact compared to the other ways of making gold.

Have you checked tbc and vanilla btw? Do they drop as much liquid gold as wotlk but with less items (at least vanilla I assume)?

[Nightstalker]

Have you checked tbc and vanilla btw? Do they drop as much liquid gold as wotlk but with less items (at least vanilla I assume)?

TBC and Vanilla have been vanity only since 5.0.4. You can sell pets and maybe toys for a couple thousand gold. That's it. The biggest downside for vanilla is the immense amount of running inside instances + stupid scripts (Hyjal). Bosses drop 1-10g. Items are not worth that much. Overall not really efficient. Wouldn't expect a lootgold buff, also the reason why I haven't checked so far. Will visit the PTR while Beta is testing legion start events.

Classic/TBC:
http://pastebin.com/Zm5SGadD

tl;dr: no changes. Only reason other than Tmog/Leg/Pets: Enchanting material for new Tomes (Ench Tmog).

[Esploratore]

Ah, right, screw them then, been good while it lasted during cata.

However, a decent percentage of us (good soloing class\spec, decent experience) have been soloing mop raids already during wod, so I'm also curious, did you give a look at wod raids, are they any good?

I suspect not so much because of the normal\hc system: with bosses being scaled to 10 (and anyway I suspect we could only solo 10 in early legion) they won't drop a lot of items, but not sure, haven't tested.

[Nightstalker]

Ah, right, screw them then, been good while it lasted during cata.

However, a decent percentage of us (good soloing class\spec, decent experience) have been soloing mop raids already during wod, so I'm also curious, did you give a look at wod raids, are they any good?

I suspect not so much because of the normal\hc system: with bosses being scaled to 10 (and anyway I suspect we could only solo 10 in early legion) they won't drop a lot of items, but not sure, haven't tested.

Same Problem as T16nhc/hc. Wait until you can "farm" Mythic for "big money". You can do nhc/hc out of curiosity. Some bosses might be unsoloable because of reset/instagib-mechanics until you reach ilvl XYZ to skip certain things. Flex-mode is the #1 reason why soloing below Mythic doesn't really pay off. The biggest benefit of WoD is (right now): Itemvalue is still the same. On average definitely above 30g with weapons going up to 80g+. Lootgold iirc should once again be 8-9g on nhc/hc (flex) and 25g on mythic. I would expect to get 100-150g per Boss in WoD nhc/hc and would stick to farming nhc if mechanics don't make hc simpler which has happened from time to time. Mythic will obviously take a ton of gear. Depending on the chance of 2hand drops existing you would get well over 200-250g per mythic boss.

[Esploratore]

Same Problem as T16nhc/hc. Wait until you can "farm" Mythic for "big money". You can do nhc/hc out of curiosity. Some bosses might be unsoloable because of reset/instagib-mechanics until you reach ilvl XYZ to skip certain things. Flex-mode is the #1 reason why soloing below Mythic doesn't really pay off. The biggest benefit of WoD is (right now): Itemvalue is still the same. On average definitely above 30g with weapons going up to 80g+. Lootgold iirc should once again be 8-9g on nhc/hc (flex) and 25g on mythic. I would expect to get 100-150g per Boss in WoD nhc/hc and would stick to farming nhc if mechanics don't make hc simpler which has happened from time to time. Mythic will obviously take a ton of gear. Depending on the chance of 2hand drops existing you would get well over 200-250g per mythic boss.

Sounds interesting; definitely it's stuff that will be soloed out of fun, and obviously mythic is gonna take ages, maybe last raid tier.

Like you said might make sense to do normal if we can farm them quickly enough, we'll see, although ofc gold wise it should only be done once the older ones are cleared.

[Dandeleon]

They nerfed Jewel and Inscription daily quest ?

[Kadenzza]

I wonder if there will be enough of a market for Card of Omens to justify running an inscription hut. Bags are likely to keep some value, but most other WoD professions probably won't have much of a market.

[Mic_128]

So since we're going to be drowning in GR, what, if anything, is going to be worth buying with them when Legion hits? From what I can tell, nothing?

[Voltan]

So are these changes for the pre-patch coming next Tuesday or Legion?

[BigAssBoy]

So are these changes for the pre-patch coming next Tuesday or Legion?

Next Tuesday the 19th

[Normie]

So since we're going to be drowning in GR, what, if anything, is going to be worth buying with them when Legion hits? From what I can tell, nothing?

You're joking, right?

If you can't see how to make gold with your garrison post-patch then you suffer from a severe lack of imagination.

[Fabinas]

Oh, you gonna be drowning in GR. Too bad all mat prices in Trading post have already quadrupled (4x). Yes that's right, all mats in TP cost from 16 GR - 40 GR EACH. Gold can be made, not so sure it's gonna be worth the hassle, as those prices will severely limit the purchase power of any garrison.

For the record, in different beta stages mat prices have already been doubled and tripled. I wouldn't rule out further price arrangements on the upward scale, before or either after pre-patch.

[thebdc]

If TH followers turn to GR followers and TH missions turn to GR missions then the applying multipliers are in the thousands per day and even x4 price up on mats can't help the flood.

The "treasure hunter" traits change into "extreme scavenger" traits that give 200% more garrison resources (instead of only 100% as "scavenger"). You can even have both "scavenger" and "extreme scavenger" on the same follower.

[Bumbac]

I wonder if all missions that start prior to prepatch will fail like they did on beta and ptr.

[slime]

I wonder if all missions that start prior to prepatch will fail like they did on beta and ptr.

ha. I didn't know they failed in beta and ptr, but I was already thinking about what will happen to missions that complete after pre-patch.