Do you feel all classes are being dumbed down with each expac that comes out?

[yoge]

I play a mage and looking at the Legion changes makes me sad. Is it just mage or is it all classes? It's just no fun.

[Tanthoris]

I've played most classes on beta and yes all classes had a pretty hard pruning, but a lot of what was removed was pointless stuff that was either baked into other spells/talents or was simply removed because blizz felt that it wasn't needed anymore, ie buffs. I wouldn't say the classes feel dumbed down because they either are proc based and you have to react to them, or they are more or less as 'complex' as they are on live. Some classes, like warriors, really only use 2 buttons for their dps rotation, but that's become the norm since arcane was made to play like that back in Cata sadly.

[Deleted]

No, it really depends on the expansion, BC, WotLK and Cataclysm definitely added a layer of complexity to each class
MoP didn't really change much compared to Cataclysm, and WoD did remove some abilities from the game

I'm an avid unholy DK player and I'm somewhat dissapointed by the Legion changes, I feel like the gameplay I like is being taken away from me, even though some of these changes seem to be interesting

[Alvito]

How fun a class or spec is wont be the same for multiple people. As far as dumbing things down you can alter that with talent options, how many passives you take, ability changing options you take or talents that give you a new ability all together. Where things seem to get boring for most is when the passive abilities are the best choices, luckily that doesn't happen often for almost any spec in Legion right now.

[yoge]

Every expac the classes are getting dumb and dumber to play. They removed runes for DK and they removed alter time and blazing speed for mage. Those two are what made mage fun.

[dexx]

Its not so much the pruning which is causing angst, its the clunkyness of some classes and the lack of elegance and synergies. Ret Paladin for example.

[Melsiren]

In -every- expansion? Not really.....

In Legion, it sure as hell seems so.

[Pull My Finger]

No, because something being "dumbed down" would imply that it was much "smarter" before. Which it wasn't.

[Saiona]

Pruning does not equal dumbed down. Compared to live WoW both fury and arms play better on beta. The skillcap of arms is increased with focused rage and imo fury skillcap has increased with the tighter window and buff/proc management.

[Rilas13]

Your right, downhill since vanilla. Why can't DPS be like it was when your max was spamming one button? Sad days we live in.

Seriously speaking, some specs are relatively simple. Some others are possibly the most complex I have ever seen them. The new version of Shadow Priest is easily has more going on then it ever has before.

I don't much like Arcane, Fire is probably simpler with the changes. Frost feels great. Creating variation though all the specs isn't a bad thing though. Having more buttons to push as part of your rotation doesn't make it inherently better either. In Legion, more than ever in my beta testing I have seen opportunity for being rewarded for playing well.

Not all specs have these options I will grant you. Maybe more often they don't, but I think nearly every class has something that if you put in the effort has the potential to yield awesome results.

@yoge, have you had a chance to play with any of the specs yet on ptr or beta? Because I would highly recommend trying before assuming they are all terrible. Before I got into beta I was on the bandwagon that the new Brewmaster was terrible just based on my perceptions and what people had said about it. After testing it I can say it feels great. Imo most of the specs I have tried are the best versions of themselves I have ever tried; However, no one can tell you what you will like.

[Speaknoevil]

No. It has been wildly variable between individual classes. Some things literally pressed one button for years worth of content in Classic/BC to achieve max damage.

Wrath, Cataclysm and MoPandaria saw the most complicated and individual talent based gameplay in PvE and PvP.

WoD was dumbed down in a lot of ways but not nearly to the extend of Legion. Don't expect good PvP in Legion, PvE would be encounter dependent I suppose.

[Saiona]

I've played most classes on beta and yes all classes had a pretty hard pruning, but a lot of what was removed was pointless stuff that was either baked into other spells/talents or was simply removed because blizz felt that it wasn't needed anymore, ie buffs. I wouldn't say the classes feel dumbed down because they either are proc based and you have to react to them, or they are more or less as 'complex' as they are on live. Some classes, like warriors, really only use 2 buttons for their dps rotation, but that's become the norm since arcane was made to play like that back in Cata sadly.

Let's look at fury: Bloodthirst,Furious Slash,Raging Blow,Rampage,Whirlwind. you use each of these very frequently. Not counting 25second Droar and 45 sec Odyn's fury. Odyn's champion procs make you use all the cds much more frequently as well. You sure you play warrior?

[Usagi Senshi]

I guess easy to learn and hard to master eludes a lot of people on these forums or they really don't understand good game design. Classes are easier to play (for the most most part, not all though) but harder to master depending on talents, procs, and how resources are used.

Also, having 30+ keybinds (my enhance shaman) was never fun nor complex IMO.

You can also tell who the scrubs are when they only say two button rotations for a class.

[IBZ]

When someone say dumb down I wish I know which expansion's rotation they prefer

[kritisk]

I guess easy to learn and hard to master eludes a lot of people on these forums or they really don't understand good game design. Classes are easier to play (for the most most part, not all though) but harder to master depending on talents, procs, and how resources are used.

Also, having 30+ keybinds (my enhance shaman) was never fun nor complex IMO.

You can also tell who the scrubs are when they only say two button rotations for a class.

Bravo! I agree completely with this line of thinking. Somewhere along the line, especially with WoW players, the idea that complexity and depth equaled having more buttons to press took hold. There is lots of opportunity in Legion to spec more detailed rotations and lots of depth in play style regardless. I bet some of these whiners would be shocked at how complex something like a simple game of Othello could be.

[Deleted]

dont forget some abilities are unlocked through pvp and the artifasct weapon.. as far as I understand it atleast..

and talents ofcourse.

in essence however I agree.. pruning upon prunint for my class (sub rogues) and you end up with wildly inventive fun abilities like a flat +30% dmg buff... im not happy (even tho I thrink the spec will be fun enough.. but thats just the core philosophy and they cant change that)


oh and we get send into the sewers.. thats some added class fantasy too

[FelPlague]

i remember back in vanilla where i cursed then did nothing but shadowbolt and farm soul shards :P and in BC when i pressed nothing but shadowbolt, and in wrath when i pressed immolate,incinerate, and soulfire instead of incinerate when they are in execute range

[Usagi Senshi]

Bravo! I agree completely with this line of thinking. Somewhere along the line, especially with WoW players, the idea that complexity and depth equaled having more buttons to press took hold. There is lots of opportunity in Legion to spec more detailed rotations and lots of depth in play style regardless. I bet some of these whiners would be shocked at how complex something like a simple game of Othello could be.

Indeed, take Blade and Soul for example, most classes only use 8-12 keybinds (more with context sensitive ability use) but the combat is more complex than WoW's is. Except for Summoners, you just mash left and right mouse buttons for that class.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

The funny thing is that mages, specifically frost and fire still have a lot more buttons most of the other classes. You should see what they did to affliction, they literally broke the spec, its garbage. MM hunters literally just press 3 buttons for their single target "rotation", thats arcane mage territory.

[Grapefruitsnz]

I always laugh when people bring up BC/Wrath as a time when specs and rotations were advanced and in depth for all classes. As someone who played a fury warrior through those times (vanilla as well), the rotations and overall depth was pretty bloody shallow. For BC fury, your main attack spells were Bloothirst, Whirlwind, Execute and Heroic Strike if rage allowed with Rampage being kept up. That was 4 buttons to press plus a 5th every 30 seconds. Obviously stance dancing was something that was done then (playing with NZ ping on a US server basically mean't it was pointless for me to even try) but still, if we're going off number of buttons needed to play the specs, that's pretty simple compared to Fury on live, and even still for Legion.