[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[threads]

it'd be nice if you could get tomes from the <60 roulettes if you already have another job at 60.

missing out on alt XP cause I need the esos

[Granyala]

missing out on alt XP cause I need the esos

I think hat is intentional. You are supposed to choose.

[Kazgrel]

it'd be nice if you could get tomes from the <60 roulettes if you already have another job at 60.

missing out on alt XP cause I need the esos

Pretty sure that's working as intended; you either get one form of currency (xp) or another (tomes).

For level 50-59 jobs, you can run Main Scenario roulette and still get the tomes along with a decent chunk of xp. I did this with all 3 tanks while I worked on my BLM anima.

I mostly use C&S as an "Oh shit I fucked up on mana management" button. :X

The increase in DPS is rather tiny due to it's long ass cooldown. DA'd C&S adds roughly 30 DPS.

Using as many DA-SEs as you can thanks to blood weapon is the main source of increased DPS when you drop grit.

From what I read somewhere, DA causes C&S to go from 100 to 450 potentcy. I like having a big slobber knocker of an attack oGCD weaved into the power slash combo for getting fights started.

That said, I have been in pinches where I used it without DA because I was that starved for MP and Blood Price was on CD.

[Wrecktangle]

My point is that the tanks primary responsibility is not dealing damage. Obviously, to do the job of a tank you have to hit the mob and therefore deal damage, but that's not your JOB, that's a side effect of fulfilling your primary function; maintaining threat on enemies so they don't go after the Heals or DPS, mob positioning, and reducing damage to both yourself and the group.

That may be your point, but that wasn't what you said. You said a tanks only job is to tank, not deal damage. I then refuted that with a very straightforward list that defended my stance.

Your argument that dealing damage isn't a tanks job and that it is a side effect of maintaining threat is a fallacy. I could just as easily pose that THREAT/ENMITY is a side effect of DEALING DAMAGE. Which came first the DPS or the ENMITY?

I get that different people play differently, which is fine. However, IMO your play style is needlessly reckless and a little selfish, saving a whole 4 minutes in a dungeon for the sake of YOU feeling better about yourself rather than how the group wants/ likes to play (may or may not be true depending on who you're grouped with, as already stated..different people play differently), making the healer pick up the slack for you playing like a DPS taking way more damage than you should.

My playstyle is not reckless or selfish, nor does a healer have to "pick up any slack". The only "slack" the healer is picking up is turning off netflix and actually participating in the dungeon rather than letting his fairy heal while he AFK watches game of thrones.

I've already proven you wrong when I showed you a list showing that a tank IS STILL A DPS, just with additional responsibility. To add insult to injury you said a tanks job is to take damage for the team, well shit I just got a gold medal for taking damage.

best tank NA?

I'm not trying to advocate anyone play a specific way so long as you fulfill your primary function. I prefer smoother runs, you don't...whatever, doesn't matter. Just don't slam, and try not to look down on other people for not playing your way.

I'm not looking down on anyone lol. I'm simply offering other players the notion that you can play in a more exciting manner if you're willing. Your assumption that your hello kitty island adventure level runs are smoother than mine is another fallacy. Just because you run slower and take your time and play at a 50% level doesn't mean your run is smoother. Easier? Sure. Slower? Sure. More boring? Sure. Smoother? Not necessarily.

[Katchii]

Pretty sure that's working as intended; you either get one form of currency (xp) or another (tomes).

For level 50-59 jobs, you can run Main Scenario roulette and still get the tomes along with a decent chunk of xp. I did this with all 3 tanks while I worked on my BLM anima.



From what I read somewhere, DA causes C&S to go from 100 to 450 potentcy. I like having a big slobber knocker of an attack oGCD weaved into the power slash combo for getting fights started.

That said, I have been in pinches where I used it without DA because I was that starved for MP and Blood Price was on CD.

I generally use DA C&S + PS combo x2 to start most single target encounters, and then pepper in the PS combo if I see threat on someone else creeping up. Anything multi target is Salted Earth + Blood Price + Unleash if 2 mobs(or free)/ Abyssal Drain if 3+ (DPS/MP spent) until Blood Price is almost done then DA Dark Dance -> DA Dark Passenger for almost no incoming damage which frees up the healer to go ham with the DPS for 15-20 seconds and I can drop Grit for a while.

missing out on alt XP cause I need the esos

Yeah, I feel you. I'm still only like 54/80 on my first anima because I've been obsessed with leveling all the DoW/DoM classes to 60 to free up inventory space, so I can finally dabble in some crafting and/ or gathering....it's just how I work, I know I could do those things now, but then I'd have to actually try to manage my inventory. I do HW beast tribes (minus moogle for now), Trial, Leveling and level 50 roulette on my sub 60 classes and I usually get a level a day to 2 days without much effort. Don't like doing MSQ roulette usually because there are no gear drops, it's usually full of newbs (not in itself a bad thing), and depending on which on you get...can be quite lengthy, even more so if it's full of newbs with low gear and lack skill.

[threads]

I think hat is intentional. You are supposed to choose.

doesnt really feel like choosing when they keep tying anima to esoteric grinds

[Katchii]

Your argument that dealing damage isn't a tanks job and that it is a side effect of maintaining threat is a fallacy. I could just as easily pose that THREAT/ENMITY is a side effect of DEALING DAMAGE. Which came first the DPS or the ENMITY?

Fair enough. It's not a fallacy though, you and I just see it differently, the end result is the same. I see it as an enmity generator primarily, you see it as a damage source that also adds threat.

My playstyle is not reckless or selfish, nor does a healer have to "pick up any slack". The only "slack" the healer is picking up is turning off netflix and actually participating in the dungeon rather than letting his fairy heal while he AFK watches game of thrones.

I've already proven you wrong when I showed you a list showing that a tank IS STILL A DPS, just with additional responsibility. To add insult to injury you said a tanks job is to take damage for the team, well shit I just got a gold medal for taking damage.

best tank NA?

You really expect me to believe that every single run you go through in Duty Finder allows you to play like this? Like I said, it can happen where you get a great group that's well geared and skilled and knows how to handle big pulls. What I'm saying is that these are not normal in Duty Finder and that it's entirely possible, and in my experience the more common result, to get a healer who just flat out can't handle all of the damage and you end up dying, causing a wipe, which results in any time you thought you were saving going completely out the window.

Also, you're stretching what i'm saying and you know it. Your job is to be the one taking the damage for the team while preventing as much of it as possible. Taking more damage =/= better tank. Unless you're asking everyone you get into duty finder with if that's how they want to do the dungeon before you make it "more exciting" for them you're way of playing is reckless and selfish, you're forcing the entire group to play the way you want to play, so you have a "more exciting run."

I'm not looking down on anyone lol. I'm simply offering other players the notion that you can play in a more exciting manner if you're willing. Your assumption that your hello kitty island adventure level runs are smoother than mine is another fallacy. Just because you run slower and take your time and play at a 50% level doesn't mean your run is smoother. Easier? Sure. Slower? Sure. More boring? Sure. Smoother? Not necessarily.

Not looking down on anyone but then resorting to name calling because you disagree with how I tank in Duty Finder... right. When I say smoother I mean there are not hectic moments with very little risk of a group wipe. I'm not playing to make it "more exciting" as you say. I don't play to min/max everything I do. Sounds like you do, that's fine. If I play at 50% of YOUR level but still get the job done effectively, so what? Why does it bother you so much that someone can play the game differently than you and still enjoy it? I've gotten several compliments on how I tank in Duty Finder so some people obviously like the way I do it

Responses in bold. Can we just agree to disagree on this? You and I have different Duty Finder tanking philosophies, both obviously work, and our respective method gives us (and others) enjoyment.

[Wrecktangle]

Responses in bold. Can we just agree to disagree on this? You and I have different Duty Finder tanking philosophies, both obviously work, and our respective method gives us (and others) enjoyment.

I'll let this drop because you are still missing my point, but I wanted to clarify one thing here:

The hello kitty island adventure is not a stab at you or anyone's play style/level. It is a stab at the level of difficulty that SQEX tunes general content in this game towards. It is completely irrefutable to state that the dungeon content in this game is not AFK level easy for even a half competent gamer.

I also could have better clarified that I don't mean I play at 100% level and you play at 50% of my level. I'm strictly speaking internally. I.e. you playing at 50% of your own ability.

At any given moment you can get by using x% of effort. I don't enjoy playing a game that I am not challenging myself. I could clear a dungeon easily, smoothly and even quickly at 10% effort. Chances are you and 99.9% of the players in this thread can too.

But let me ask you, in what world is that fun? In what world is just being AFK and getting credit for clearing a dungeon with no danger, no responsibility or need for recovery fun?

My real job is a daily fucking grind of boring projects. I retreat to games for my excitement, not for more boring work.

Maybe you're a squirrel suit skydiving lion tamer who does MMA on the side and you retreat to games for a nice feeling of a 9-5 grind? If so I could completely understand your POV

[Katchii]

I'll let this drop because you are still missing my point, but I wanted to clarify one thing here:

The hello kitty island adventure is not a stab at you or anyone's play style/level. It is a stab at the level of difficulty that SQEX tunes general content in this game towards. It is completely irrefutable to state that the dungeon content in this game is not AFK level easy for even a half competent gamer.

Now I understand where you're coming from. Yeah the content is easy, and adding a little pizazz or whatever to it makes it seem not so droll. I'm just not comfortable doing that in a random group where any one of them can leave or start bitching for any reason or no reason at all. I deal with that shit at work and playing a game that just lets me play is awesome, and I'd rather not do anything to deal with stupid drama. I get enough enjoyment out of JUST playing without trying to add additional challenge or difficulty. Regardless of what I'm doing in game, I'm still disconnected from the real world for a bit...that's usually enough for me.

[Berethos08]

It is completely irrefutable to state that the dungeon content in this game is not AFK level easy for even a half competent gamer.

Opinions are now irrefutable statements. Who knew?

[Granyala]

The hello kitty island adventure is not a stab at you or anyone's play style/level. It is a stab at the level of difficulty that SQEX tunes general content in this game towards. It is completely irrefutable to state that the dungeon content in this game is not AFK level easy for even a half competent gamer.

Sorry, but that's true for everything PvE in MMOs INCLUDING Mythic/Savage raiding (I'll exclude world first raiding, since these folks are often undergeared compared to the average raiders that raid the place after farming the lower difficulty for god knows how long until they slowly progress into the harder mode).

There is nothing inherently hard about it, if you look at >personal< skill requirement.
It's the coordinated "20 people need to do it relatively error free" that makes it hard.

- - - Updated - - -

But let me ask you, in what world is that fun? In what world is just being AFK and getting credit for clearing a dungeon with no danger, no responsibility or need for recovery fun?

Agreed.
It gets fun if you start to push things and start taking risks. IE "how much can we pull and safely handle" or "how agressive can I DPS while still keeping everyone alive"l

If I were to only heal and never DPS I'd probably need a movie for each dungeon in order to not fall asleep.
But the fluid weaving in and out of cleric makes it fun for me.

- - - Updated - - -

Opinions are now irrefutable statements. Who knew?

It's not an opinion.
It's a sad fact in both WoW and FF-XIV.

[Berethos08]

It's not an opinion.
It's a sad fact in both WoW and FF-XIV.

Difficulty is relative.

For some, they will find it incredibly easy. Others, not so much.

So, since there's a spectrum of how easy or difficult different people will find a particular dungeon or boss fight, then a statement that it is easy or hard is an opinion, at least to some degree. It certainly isn't an "irrefutable statement." That's just something someone says when they don't want to bother with other opinions that differ from their own, or the possibly that they aren't right about something.

And that's ignoring that calling it "afk level easy" is being hyperbolic in the first place.

[Granyala]

Difficulty is relative.
For some, they will find it incredibly easy. Others, not so much.
And that's ignoring that calling it "afk level easy" is being hyperbolic in the first place.

He said "for half competent gamers".
Ofc incompetent ones will find it hard and FF-XIV is full of those which is why the dungeons are braindead easy and also why players like Katchii, understandably, prefer to play it safe when grouped with unknown people.

I agree that "AFK level easy" is hyperbolic, which is why I ignored that statement.

But be honest: The difficulty of MMO PvE has nothing on stuff like playing a musical instrument. I'm learning one right now and the difference is staggering.
FF-XIVs dungeons are not hard. They never were and never will be because they aren't meant to be hard.

[Advent]

Then what's the point in debating it?

I hate when tanks pull like 3-5 packs at once. I'm never so bored, particularly because I'm melee. I COULD do AoE, but sitting there spamming one AoE button until I have no TP and then twiddling my thumbs because the mobs aren't dead yet and I'm regenerating SUCKS.

[Berethos08]

He said "for half competent gamers".

What he said is still a judgment based on his perception which is based on his own experience (being an experienced and knowledgeable player), which means it is an opinion.

Which takes us back to my original comment - are we really considering opinions to be irrefutable statements?

[Aruhen]

Sometimes I miss Sodium Chloride on these forums...

[Graeham]

Sometimes I miss Sodium Chloride on these forums...

I heard if you say 'Dark Souls meets Final Fantasy XIV' three times in a mirror at midnight with a wine glass filled with blood in your right hand he'll appear...

[Deleted]

What he said is still a judgment based on his perception which is based on his own experience (being an experienced and knowledgeable player), which means it is an opinion.

Which takes us back to my original comment - are we really considering opinions to be irrefutable statements?

Yes because you fail to understand that a dungeon being objectively easy is a fact not an opinion. You can have an opinion on a fact but you cannot change the fact that it is a fact... (fact-ception)

[Sorrior]

Yes because you fail to understand that a dungeon being objectively easy is a fact not an opinion. You can have an opinion on a fact but you cannot change the fact that it is a fact... (fact-ception)

Easy and difficult are subjective not objective is his point facts CANNOT be subjective

[Aruhen]

A dungeon can be deemed "easy"... There's a thing called tuning. For example a dungeon wont let you enter unless you have an item level of 210 but everything in there is tuned for a person say with an item level of 160. On top of that the mechanics are pretty much tank and spank were you just stand still and go about your day. That is what you would call a dungeon "easy" because its not properly tuned for the level of gear people are going to enter. Of course people can still fail but people find ways to fail at everything in life somehow.