Protection legion Discussion

[Hostile]

the only thig warrior needs is to get rid of shitty channeling artifact ability, that does almost nothing on defensive end and absolutely nothing on offensive end on single target. neltharion's fury is pure shit, otherwise, warrior is gonna be pretty fucking fun to play.

[Tyze]

the only thig warrior needs is to get rid of shitty channeling artifact ability, that does almost nothing on defensive end and absolutely nothing on offensive end on single target. neltharion's fury is pure shit, otherwise, warrior is gonna be pretty fucking fun to play.

Well they wont get rid of it so I recommend getting used to the idea of it :P

I agree that channeling spell is a bit weird, but it's a unique thing to have, it takes a bit of pause from the normal damage rotation. Instead of having just a spell and forget you need to make the most out of it.

[Deleted]

Well they wont get rid of it so I recommend getting used to the idea of it :P

I agree that channeling spell is a bit weird, but it's a unique thing to have, it takes a bit of pause from the normal damage rotation. Instead of having just a spell and forget you need to make the most out of it.

I personally do not really mind the channel, i dislike the imobile and easily interruptible/disrupt part of it.

[Hacan]

I know I've asked this before, but I thought it would be a good time to bring it back up to the top of the thread now that things have somewhat calmed down in the Beta and they are just slightly adjusting things.

1.) What seems to be the best ST Spec & Rotation so far?
2.) What seems to be the best MT Spec & Rotation so far?
3.) Does anybody have any good sources to guide through the most optimum path for the Artifact?
4.) Does anybody have any good WeakAuras they want to share?

[Cylunaria]

I know I've asked this before, but I thought it would be a good time to bring it back up to the top of the thread now that things have somewhat calmed down in the Beta and they are just slightly adjusting things.

1.) What seems to be the best ST Spec & Rotation so far?
2.) What seems to be the best MT Spec & Rotation so far?
3.) Does anybody have any good sources to guide through the most optimum path for the Artifact?
4.) Does anybody have any good WeakAuras they want to share?

Interestingly enough, no you haven't asked that before or been in the thread at any point O_o. To answer your questions though:


That's the pretty cookie-cutter way to go. pure single target you can swap SW with SB, you can take impending victory for stuff outside of raid too probably. As for artifact you'll probably want to hang far right side, get that gold trait then cut into the middle and across to the left after you get the middle gold trait.

On a slightly tangential note, I think indomitable will probably be silly as fuck to use once you overgear content, and can be stronger than NS in that case. Wish it had more use outside of that, but NS is just so damn strong.

[Deleted]

Seems like war are the tank with least HP on beta ATM. Maybe that's the intent behind the SBlock recharge time reduction ?

[NightTrain32]

As for artifact you'll probably want to hang far right side, get that gold trait then cut into the middle and across to the left after you get the middle gold trait.

Is this something others also believe? I am not in beta but I have heard that because rage generation is worse right away that going to the left to get that artifact ability to help in that area and that the traits on the way granting the passive armor and stamina might be best. Is the "chance" to get a more powerful IP that much more important? Are the traits on the way to the right better than the passive EH increase on the left? Or am I underestimating how good rage generation is right away at lower gear levels?

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Is this something others also believe? I am not in beta but I have heard that because rage generation is worse right away that going to the left to get that artifact ability to help in that area and that the traits on the way granting the passive armor and stamina might be best. Is the "chance" to get a more powerful IP that much more important? Are the traits on the way to the right better than the passive EH increase on the left? Or am I underestimating how good rage generation is right away at lower gear levels?

I've gone to toward the right and left on two separate Warriors (to see how it felt). I feel like Dragon Scales is stronger; it's not confirmed, but in recent builds, we think it's been changed from its old RPPM to a %-based chance like Celestalon said it likely would be. It fits in well with how Never Surrender changes the cap (I've stacked IP to a huge amount while off-tanking), and in general, it just feels better.

Rage generation is perfectly fine and, to be honest, has never felt like much of an issue, even before they changed it from the old formula to the new one.

Here's something that has been posted in the discord, courtesy of @Marok:


That's generally agreed to be the best route. Scales of Earth was changed to proc on every critical block, just a tooltip error, so it's quite good as a second choice.

[Beardyface]

I've gone to toward the right and left on two separate Warriors (to see how it felt). I feel like Dragon Scales is stronger; it's not confirmed, but in recent builds, we think it's been changed from its old RPPM to a %-based chance like Celestalon said it likely would be. It fits in well with how Never Surrender changes the cap (I've stacked IP to a huge amount while off-tanking), and in general, it just feels better.

Rage generation is perfectly fine and, to be honest, has never felt like much of an issue, even before they changed it from the old formula to the new one.

Here's something that has been posted in the discord, courtesy of @Marok:


That's generally agreed to be the best route. Scales of Earth was changed to proc on every critical block, just a tooltip error, so it's quite good as a second choice.

This is my understanding of best order as well, though the recent buff to Rage of the Fallen may make it worth getting before Thunder Crash.

[NightTrain32]

This is my understanding of best order as well, though the recent buff to Rage of the Fallen may make it worth getting before Thunder Crash.

So basically we are not worried much about health levels much then, although the 3% you get from the artifact trait is rather minimal, and more about damage? That is unless I misinterpreted the changes to RFDT health calculation then it would be terrible.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

So basically we are not worried much about health levels much then, although the 3% you get from the artifact trait is rather minimal, and more about damage? That is unless I misinterpreted the changes to RFDT health calculation then it would be terrible.

The changes to the RFDT formula made it so that gearing up wasn't a Rage loss, as well as making sure that Last Stand wouldn't be a negative gain either. That's it.

Health levels are generally fine. As long as your Ignore Pain uptime is good, you should be okay. Just make sure to stack it as much as you can when you're off-tanking (6x 60-Rage IPs, assuming you're specced into Never Surrender, which you should be).

[Breccia]

The changes to the RFDT formula made it so that gearing up wasn't a Rage loss

This is still false. Rage From Damage Taken is based on ilvl, just not specific items.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

This is still false. Rage From Damage Taken is based on ilvl, just not specific items.

It's in a layman's terms. Not everyone needs or wants to know all of that - the TL;DR is that gearing up no longer has the downsides it did before.

[Breccia]

It's in a layman's terms. Not everyone needs or wants to know all of that - the TL;DR is that gearing up no longer has the downsides it did before.

In what regard? In the simplest possible terms, more +ivll = more presumptive max health = -Rage From Damage Taken. The only way this isn't true is if "gearing up" includes only enchants and gems, which (spoiler alert) you'll have in roughly the same amount at higher ilvl anyhow.

EDIT: Seriously, we're disconnecting on this. Celestalon mentions ilvl as the very first step here.

[Beardyface]

The new formula doesn't solve the RFDT inversely scaling with gear problem at all. ilvl on gear increases proportionally to Stamina on gear, so nothing has changed on that front.

The only thing the new formula solved was the problems with generating less RFDT from Shaman Heals, Last Stand, Talents, Stamina Flasks and Stamina Trinkets.

We will still generate less RFDT when equipping a gear upgrade and fighting the same boss at the same difficulty level.

[Breccia]

The new formula doesn't solve the RFDT inversely scaling with gear problem at all. ilvl on gear increases proportionally to Stamina on gear, so nothing has changed on that front.

The only thing the new formula solved was the problems with generating less RFDT from Shaman Heals, Last Stand, Talents, Stamina Flasks and Stamina Trinkets.

We will still generate less RFDT when equipping a gear upgrade and fighting the same boss at the same difficulty level.

Which is like having an Edsel with working air conditioning. At least you'll be comfortable waiting for the tow true.

[Arteezy]

hey guys is ravager just bugged still? did it get pruned (kappa) ? is there a work-around to use it atm?

[Beardyface]

hey guys is ravager just bugged still? did it get pruned (kappa) ? is there a work-around to use it atm?

Still bugged. Been bugged 3-4 builds now. No work around I'm aware of.

[Arteezy]

Still bugged. Been bugged 3-4 builds now. No work around I'm aware of.

Pretty standard.

[Alaexaender]

The new formula doesn't solve the RFDT inversely scaling with gear problem at all. ilvl on gear increases proportionally to Stamina on gear, so nothing has changed on that front.

This is true. But what matters is survivability, which comes in the form of shielding.

With the new system, we will only take gain less rage if we are dying slower. I don't know about you, but to me, I'm mostly concerned about not dying. If I am not dying, I will not complain about how I'm unable to survive, because clearly I am able to. Also, note that rage generation only concerns IP. Shield block uses minimal rage, so we can use it no matter how little rage we are generating from pain, based purely on our rotation. If we are taking less damage, then we will get a smaller shield, but that shield will be MORE EFFECTIVE HEALTH than it would have been otherwise.

Say we have 1mil hp. We take a 1mil hit, with 50% mitigation. 500k of our hp in damage, 50%, giving us 60 rage. This results in a 400k hp shield, worth 800k.

Now, say we gain items. We go back to that same boss, and get hit again. Now we take 400k damage, out of 1.6mil hp, due to 60% mitigation.. We take a fourth of our damage, so we only gain 30 rage. We spend this on a shield.

That shield will be larger than 200k, first off. It increases with attack power. But, even if we did only have a 200k shield, that shield is now worth 500k due to mitigation.

So, we went from a hit bringing us down to 50% hp and replacing it with a 800k hp shield, to a 25% hit giving us more than 500k in shielding (which is more than half the shield before). Overall, we have gained more shielding. Yes, those numbers were imaginary, but the pattern remains the same.


Now, a note to those complaining about "simplicity". I feel that the RFDT is actually going to require some complex management to get the most out of it, due to how our mitigation changes mid-fight. We will have to choose when to have high mitigation, and there could easily be times in the raid where your healers agree to heal you more, so you can stop using SB/etc to reduce damage. Why? To top off your rage, for the burst phase the boss is about to enter. To be the best possible, we will have to manage when to take damage and when not to. The normal raider will shield wall when the boss does massive raid-wide damage, so he looks good staying at high hp. The mythic raider will recognize that he can avoid being one-shot, and so he will only use shout. This way, he comes out with enough rage to spend on Never-Surrender-Improved shields while the healers are busy topping off the rest of the raid.