[BETA] Destruction Warlock Discussion

[Rytle]

Supremacy: infernal for sustained AoE. Not sure this situation actually exists.


i wish they whould make perma infernal a thing for destro, the artifact trait: impish incineration only increases doomguard.They should change that to infernal

[Deleted]

Supremacy: infernal for sustained AoE. Not sure this situation actually exists.


i wish they whould make perma infernal a thing for destro, the artifact trait: impish incineration only increases doomguard.They should change that to infernal

that would go against the whole purpose of the trait itself which is to boost single target dps from certain pets.

[urdasergiu]

Perma infernal makes more sense for dest than doomguard.

[Uzkin]

that would go against the whole purpose of the trait itself which is to boost single target dps from certain pets.

Not really since it also buffs Sacrifice; the meaning of the trait is to buff the Grimoires. It would make perfect sense for it to buff Infernal as well, especially since it is pretty much the trademark destruction demon.

[Anoregon]

Perma infernal makes more sense for dest than doomguard.

Thematically I absolutely agree. I love the new model too, it's a shame that you never really see it during end game group content since it's just a solo tank pet for the most part.

[Gaidax]

Thematically I absolutely agree. I love the new model too, it's a shame that you never really see it during end game group content since it's just a solo tank pet for the most part.

You will see it on every pull with Rain of Chaos *cough* Lord of Flames.

[Anoregon]

You will see it on every pull with Rain of Chaos *cough* Lord of Flames.

Oh really? The Wowhead calculator shows Lord of Flames as augmenting the summon infernal spell itself. I guess that's not accurate?

[Gaidax]

Oh really? The Wowhead calculator shows Lord of Flames as augmenting the summon infernal spell itself. I guess that's not accurate?

Maybe it's some sort of misunderstanding, what I meant is that you will be using Infernal one way or another on every pull in end game content.

[moonrakerx]

Got beta and rolled destro..started with supremacy for a little better tank pet but had to spec out because the damn pet is so big with the way the new camera is I can hardly see anything.

[Avengor]

I'm curious what you guys think our AOE rotation will look like.

My thoughts right now would be using Cataclysm and Rain of Fire spam (doesn't Rain of Fire stack on itself)? If Cataclysm isn't taken, I guess using Havoc to get Immolation on as many mobs as possible + rain of fire is the way to go? Possibly incorporating Conflagrate as well?

I realize this is going to be content dependent (dungeons vs raids, etc). Just kinda curious what everyone is thinking.

Also, if this is discussed elsewhere in this thread feel free to point me to a post. I tried using the search function, but my results were...not great.

[striderZA]

I'm curious what you guys think our AOE rotation will look like.

My thoughts right now would be using Cataclysm and Rain of Fire spam (doesn't Rain of Fire stack on itself)? If Cataclysm isn't taken, I guess using Havoc to get Immolation on as many mobs as possible + rain of fire is the way to go? Possibly incorporating Conflagrate as well?

I realize this is going to be content dependent (dungeons vs raids, etc). Just kinda curious what everyone is thinking.

Also, if this is discussed elsewhere in this thread feel free to point me to a post. I tried using the search function, but my results were...not great.

Don't discount FnB Incinerate, it hits for a LOT of damage once you have I'd say at least 4 targets (very rough estimate).

[Gaidax]

Well, assuming I take no AoE talents at all, besides Sacrifice, which is my default setup overall - what I do is basically get 3-4 immolates in, then spam RoF until I can praying for Soul Conduit refunds and tossing Conflags in-between to keep shards rolling, I did not math out anything, but my gut feeling tells me it is what should be done at 4 targets or more. Less than 4 targets and then I usually just do the normal stuff and keep immolate up on everything.

As for F&B, I dislike it - simply because when it comes to real balls to the wall AoE - RoF stacking is where the damage is and to do that you have to keep up Immolates and Conflags, so that plus RoF casts and you barely have time to benefit from F&B. I just think that Eradication is more bang for the buck overall. Speaking of that row, Soul Harvest is sure useless...

I'm not even saying when you will have shard generating artifact - it will be pretty useless and I am sure everyone will be hunting that artifact until their eyes bleed.

[Avengor]

Don't discount FnB Incinerate, it hits for a LOT of damage once you have I'd say at least 4 targets (very rough estimate).

This is my confusion. We have so many options. When is spamming incinerate with FnB better than the scenario I mentioned (cataclysm + RoF spam)? And why not take Wreak Havoc and use Havoc to rapidly apply immo+conflag to everything with Roaring Blaze? (Although presumably that would be more of a cleave type strategy).

I just see so many potential AoE possibilities. I guess I'm looking for the The Best Way to AOE (tm), but maybe I need to change my mindset and realize that it will probably be a case by case situation.

I'm just asking because I know people smarter than me are also looking at this and may have already figured out the best options.

Well, assuming I take no AoE talents at all, besides Sacrifice, which is my default setup overall - what I do is basically get 3-4 immolates in, then spam RoF until I can praying for Soul Conduit refunds and tossing Conflags in-between to keep shards rolling, I did not math out anything, but my gut feeling tells me it is what should be done at 4 targets or more. Less than 4 targets and then I usually just do the normal stuff and keep immolate up on everything.

As for F&B, I dislike it - simply because when it comes to real balls to the wall AoE - RoF stacking is where the damage is and to do that you have to keep up Immolates and Conflags, so that plus RoF casts and you barely have time to benefit from F&B. I just think that Eradication is more bang for the buck overall. Speaking of that row, Soul Harvest is sure useless...

The 30 tier is really a toss up for me between Reverse Entropy and Cataclysm. RE would seem much more suited for cleave and ST fights. Soul Conduit as viable as Wreak Havoc, but I also haven't had the chance to test either in a AOE situation yet.

I completely agree with your second paragraph. I didn't mention F&B because I don't see myself spamming incinerate in an AOE environment. It just seems like there's other things that would be superior to cast.

[Deleted]

This is my confusion. We have so many options. When is spamming incinerate with FnB better than the scenario I mentioned (cataclysm + RoF spam)? And why not take Wreak Havoc and use Havoc to rapidly apply immo+conflag to everything with Roaring Blaze? (Although presumably that would be more of a cleave type strategy).

I just see so many potential AoE possibilities. I guess I'm looking for the The Best Way to AOE (tm), but maybe I need to change my mindset and realize that it will probably be a case by case situation.

I'm just asking because I know people smarter than me are also looking at this and may have already figured out the best options.




The 30 tier is really a toss up for me between Reverse Entropy and Cataclysm. RE would seem much more suited for cleave and ST fights. Soul Conduit as viable as Wreak Havoc, but I also haven't had the chance to test either in a AOE situation yet.

I completely agree with your second paragraph. I didn't mention F&B because I don't see myself spamming incinerate in an AOE environment. It just seems like there's other things that would be superior to cast.

well thats the thing, there is no overall best option when comes to aoe as you'll most likely switch several talent pr encounter and essentially pick talents optimal for the encounter, which can be anything from just RoF or balls to the wall aoe picking every aoe talent the is or even something balanced based on what your raid needs.

keep in mind that reverse entropy also works with rain of fire so it works for aoe as well.

you're assuming you can spam cast your other aoe abilities, RoF costs 3 shards so its hardly spammable, cataclysm has a 45 sec cd, sacrifice is rppm based afaik, so you basically either have to spam FnB or have shard generation great enough for you to spam RoF, the only aoe you can reliably do is from FnB the rest are either have a fixed cd or are based on something random like shards or rppm procs and imo, reliability trumphs randomness any day of the week in my book.

[Avengor]

you're assuming you can spam cast your other aoe abilities, RoF costs 3 shards so its hardly spammable, cataclysm has a 45 sec cd, sacrifice is rppm based afaik, so you basically either have to spam FnB or have shard generation great enough for you to spam RoF, the only aoe you can reliably do is from FnB the rest are either have a fixed cd or are based on something random like shards or rppm procs and imo, reliability trumphs randomness any day of the week in my book.

Well, I'm relying on continuous soul shard production from immolate being on all the mobs. I imagine 4+ mobs burning will be producing soul shards quite quickly. So while you may not be continuously stacking RoF, I imagine you'll be casting it more than your post suggests. In general though, I agree.

Reverse Entropy just makes your RoF cast faster and cost less mana. I don't see this being that valuable, although I have no idea if going AOE heavy will mana starve us (and we always have Life Tap). Soul shards will be the limiting factor on RoF damage more than the time it takes to get a bunch of RoF casts off.

If I'm wrong on the rate of soul shard production, then FnB becomes much more attractive. And honestly, it is probably more attractive on any encounter that needs more AOE than havoc can provide.

[Baconeggcheese]

Soul Harvest is sure useless...

Well... it's usable in aoe where eradication isn't. That's about all its got going for it. Considering you almost never need more burst aoe though I don't see that being used much if ever.

I'm not even saying when you will have shard generating artifact - it will be pretty useless and I am sure everyone will be hunting that artifact until their eyes bleed.

Assume you mean the legendary? That's gonna be such cancer gameplay but it'd definitely work.

[urdasergiu]

Got my hands on Lord of flames today, expected to be better dmg but it's meh.We got some shity golden traits especially the incinerate one and confl.

[Gaidax]

Got my hands on Lord of flames today, expected to be better dmg but it's meh.We got some shity golden traits especially the incinerate one and confl.

Not sure what you expected then tbh if you think it's meh.

[Kalamazi]

I have been looking around for sims and such as of recent but have not really come across any. I know that there are some in the camp of advocating for Crit>Haste>Mastery and some for Mastery>Crit>Haste. Even with the fact that our mastery is complete garbage at the moment, I think there is some potential in prioritizing mastery as our main stat.

When I begin to run some DPS testing and swap around to a haste/crit build, the crit and haste gains are very small (2-3% each overall) yet I am losing over 15%+ mastery. Obviously with the randomness of mastery, it is not a flat 15% extra damage lost, but the 2-3% crit and haste gains are not very appealing, even with Conflagration of Chaos...

Has anyone heard some concrete information about stat prio? It seems there are no actual Destruction DPS sims out at the moment that are optimal (Mr. Robot has some, but they are not optimal).

[Gaidax]

Did not see anything concrete yet, but simulators should be ready soon.

I think it will be Mastery > Crit>=Haste > Vers.

You are completely right, small amounts of mastery rating result in pretty big actual gains, although need to remember that mastery does not affect all of our damage, while crit or haste do, although still even with that taken into account if I go by my character example:

6846 crit rating adds 19.56% crit (~24.5% total).
100086 mastery rating adds 86.45% mastery (~110% total).

So I need 350 rating to get +1% crit and only 116 rating to get 1% mastery. 1% crit is without a doubt better than 1% mastery... but is 1% crit better than 3% mastery? I do not think so and even if they end up even - Mastery will still be a better stat because of damage reduction...

For example in my case, not only I have up to 110% damage increase for my spells, but I also take up to 24% less damage as well - that is not a small amount of passive defense.