UEFA Euro 2016

[classic username]

Afaik it was already confirmed that the next tournament has 24 teams overall again. So they either have to take some of the 3rds to get to 16 teams, or have to cut some of the 2nds to get 8.

well guess 2020 will be another i dont care euro then... sad

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Stop talking about "3rd place bullshit" already. The rules were clear months or years before the tournament started. And anyway, we defeated the winners of Spain group, then the team that drew Germany and the sensation team of the tournament easily.

Bad news for you, EURO 2020 is already confirmed to be 24 teams again.

it lose its value by doing that.

[Wildtree]

oh I understand that its probably meant innocent enough. However, considering this thread is basically like a fire cracker, even unintentional sparks need to be kept in check

Ive been modding this section since dec. I know how you all work by now (mostly).

Thanks for that sensitive approach

[classic username]

Stop talking about "3rd place bullshit" already. The rules were clear months or years before the tournament started. And anyway, we defeated the winners of Spain group, then the team that drew Germany and the sensation team of the tournament easily.

Bad news for you, EURO 2020 is already confirmed to be 24 teams again.

Who actually deserves the final more than Portugal? Germany and Italy arguably, only. Not anyone else.

the teams wo finished 1-2 and not on 3. Sorry but thats just my Opinion... This Euro is the worst ever because of that. gl in the final but i still dont wanna see Ronaldo/Pepe win that

[Deleted]

well guess 2020 will be another i dont care euro then... sad

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it lose its value by doing that.

I wouldn't say that. As a mostly neutral observer, I actually prefer more games. Sometimes even "clear" matchups can result in awesome games. Think for example about the WC 2014, where arguably the most difficult game the Germans had was against Algeria.

[Sughs]

well guess 2020 will be another i dont care euro then... sad

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it lose its value by doing that.

I don't like it either, if only 2 teams qualify and the tournament only has 16 teams the group stage would be so much different. Teams would actually play to win, at least in the first two games. Not play for the draw. That's what happened to Portugal. But what's done it's done. It's all about the money and to be honest, England and Spain not winning their groups fucked up everything.

[Deleted]

A few? ONE... Only one would make me happy.
For some stupid reason we, as a nation, decided a few years ago, that the classic number 9 is no longer needed.
Well, we've had Klose and Gomez. If push came to shove, we were always able to resort to them.
Now Klose retired, Gomez was not 100% fit anyway. Mueller moves over the pitch like a stork, he will never be a real 9.
We have indeed a big problem from that angle.
The other parts are covered pretty good. There are still a bunch of number 1 choices injured that didn't make it to the tournament.
Marco Reus, and İlkay Gündoğan for example.
Today we also missed Hummels who was barred for yellow cards.

You mean 10, not 9.

It goes like this:

9 10 11
6 7 8
2 3 4 5
1

[Deleted]

I don't like it either, if only 2 teams qualify and the tournament only has 16 teams the group stage would be so much different. Teams would actually play to win, at least in the first two games. Not play for the draw. That's what happened to Portugal. But what's done it's done. It's all about the money and to be honest, England and Spain not winning their groups fucked up everything.

Yep, the Italians were a little unlucky in that regard. It was the only team to be already 1. in their group after 2 games. The reward was Spain, then Germany. And if they'd have won that, the next enemy would have been France. ^^

You mean 10, not 9.

It goes like this:

9 10 11
6 7 8
2 3 4 5
1

I'm not entirely sure, but I think that's wrong. E.g. 2-3 are usually inner defenders, and 6 is central defensive midfield (in front of the defense line).

[Sughs]

the teams wo finished 1-2 and not on 3. Sorry but thats just my Opinion... This Euro is the worst ever because of that. gl in the final but i still dont wanna see Ronaldo/Pepe win that

Teams qualified in 3rd deserve as much as the ones qualified in 1st to reach the final. It's not like you don't have 3 games in between.


Of the 24 teams Portugal is currently the 3rd best. Since the 1st and 2nd had to meet in the semi-finals, can't see why we don't deserve the final, but hey, i may be biased here. Trying to be honest, i watched almost all games. All of the knockout stage and other than Italy really, really close to us, can't see other team to deserve the final other than these 4.

[Deleted]

I don't like it either, if only 2 teams qualify and the tournament only has 16 teams the group stage would be so much different. Teams would actually play to win, at least in the first two games. Not play for the draw. That's what happened to Portugal. But what's done it's done. It's all about the money and to be honest, England and Spain not winning their groups fucked up everything.

England had no chance anyway, they were absolute shit. All the top teams ended up in the left branch, the right branch didn't have a single top team, and so ended up having a 5-times drawer progress through it. Prepare for a 40 teams world cup.

[Deleted]

You mean 10, not 9.

It goes like this:

9 10 11
6 7 8
2 3 4 5
1

Not sure Shearer played out wide.

[Deleted]

A few? ONE... Only one would make me happy.
For some stupid reason we, as a nation, decided a few years ago, that the classic number 9 is no longer needed.
Well, we've had Klose and Gomez. If push came to shove, we were always able to resort to them.
Now Klose retired, Gomez was not 100% fit anyway. Mueller moves over the pitch like a stork, he will never be a real 9.
We have indeed a big problem from that angle.
The other parts are covered pretty good. There are still a bunch of number 1 choices injured that didn't make it to the tournament.
Marco Reus, and İlkay Gündoğan for example.
Today we also missed Hummels who was barred for yellow cards.

A lot of nations/clubs decided that "true no9's" are obsolete it seems. I was discussing this with some friends during the last WC and this EC. Most forward players these days would have been considered attacking midfielders, "no 10's" or wingers even 10 years ago. Where are (the true) Ronaldo, Sheva, Inzagi, Morientes, van Nistelrooy, Kluivert etc of our days? I guess the football "meta" just changed and made them obsolete . Now you have players scoring goals AND doing midfield / defensive work.

CL is definitely not bigger than EC or WC.
National team tournaments trumping club level tournaments. Always have, always will.

Eh it depends what you are talking about. As prestige? Probably EC and WC are bigger, especially since they are only played every 4 years.
As value? CL trumps any NT tournaments. You got players training / playing together every day vs players playing for like 10 matches/ year. You just can't get the same level of teamwork and synergy.

[Sughs]

England had no chance anyway, they were absolute shit. All the top teams ended up in the left branch, the right branch didn't have a single top team, and so ended up having a 5-times drawer progress through it. Prepare for a 40 teams world cup.

Left branch is the one with Portugal. "Top teams" who lost to Iceland and Croatia.

[Deleted]

Left branch is the one with Portugal. "Top teams" who lost to Iceland and Croatia.

No, left branch is the Italy/France one.

[Sughs]

No, left branch is the Italy/France one.

Don't you see Portugal in the left?

[classic username]

England had no chance anyway, they were absolute shit. All the top teams ended up in the left branch, the right branch didn't have a single top team, and so ended up having a 5-times drawer progress through it. Prepare for a 40 teams world cup.

well it had Belgium.. a very underperforming Nation. expect to see Wilmots gone soon

[Wildtree]

You mean 10, not 9.

It goes like this:

9 10 11
6 7 8
2 3 4 5
1

No, I mean classic 9.. The classic 9 is the center striker. While a classic 10 is the game maker.
Classic 9s:
Gerd Mueller, Ronaldo (Brazil), DiStefano, Alan Shearer, Batistuta, Seeler. Kluivert and a few more.
Classic 10s:
Johan Cruyff, Michel Platini, Guenther Netzer, Pele', Zico and some more.

When referred to classic numbers, that comes from the time when there were literally only the numbers 1 - 11 on the field and the substitutes had the following higher numbers.
Back in those days the systems were also a bit different.
The most common system was like this:

11 - 9 - 7
- 10 - 8

- 4 - 6
3 - 5 - 2
--- 1 ------

Also known as WM system.
The defense was flexible in the sense of either acting as one line of 5 players (Italy was/is famous for that) or the 6 supporting the offensive midfield, while the 4 was the supporter for the 5 (libero).
That position was defined, and still is to this day by Beckenbauer. No one's ever played the 5 better than him.

[Deleted]

You mean 10, not 9.

It goes like this:

9 10 11
6 7 8
2 3 4 5
1

A classic no10 was playing in the center of the field (but more often than not had a "jolly joker" position allowing him to go where the fuck he wanted) controlling the tempo of the game and dispatching passes for the strikers. No 9 was the striker while 7 and 11 were the left and right wingers. Anyway it was kinda of a mess since "classic numbers" are different for different regions/countries (like Brazil vs England vs other European teams).

Edit: wildtree explained it faster and better than me

[Sughs]

France really stole the Iceland thingy...i thought only a few fans did it during the game but i just saw the video of the players and the fans all doing it in the end of the match.

That's just stupid...Icelanders must be really angry.

[Slant]

You mean 10, not 9.

It goes like this:

9 10 11
6 7 8
2 3 4 5
1

Actually, that is wrong. The numbers for positions are purely historical. Take a look at the first national game, which had a formation like this (as crazy as it looks by today's standards... 8 strikers! Wheee)

..........1
.....2.........3
4.5.6.7.8.9.10.11

The reason for this is mostly that passing was considered unproper football in a time when dribbling the ball to the goal line was considered "good form".

Which later evolved into something like this (2-3-5):

..........1
.....2.........3
..4......5.......6
.7..8..9..10..11

I think this coincided with the idea that while passing may be "bad form" it yielded much better results. And thus a stronger defense was needed.

Once they figured out that 3 in the back was cool, they pulled the 5 back in to make it look like this (3-2-2-3, aka W-M for the letters it forms a W at the top and an M at the bottom half of the rows (excluding GK)).

..........1
....2....5.....3
.......4....6
.....8......10
...7.....9......11

A brief pause of silence for the formation that I grew up with, the 90s 3-5-2:

..........1
...2.....5......3
4....8.....10....6
.........7
.....9......11

I remember Bayern struggling real hard to get rid of that 3 backline and change to the modern 4 backline. That was a wild and unsuccessful period... Matthäus in particular could never cope with that idea. Played his worst games those years.

Today's formation might look like this 4-2-3-1 (and favours zonal defense instead of marking the man defense, a development that was started by the Dutch if I recall correctly but wasn't implemented widely until the 90s (IIRC led by who else but Cruyff, a Dutch, at Barcelona), incidentally a time when the Libero (5) started to fall out favour to be replaced with a back line of four):

..........1
..2....4...5...3
.......6....10
...8.....7.....11
..........9

These days, the 2 and 3 often charge forward and overload the flanks, making it an effective 2-2-3-3 on offense, while reverting to a 4-2-3-1 in defense, thus enabling this play that I mentally call "Handball in Football", where they pass around the box much like in a Handball game. This is, btw, why Alaba is considered irreplacable as LB. He's too fast to just sit in the 7, where he would like to play. His runs up and down the sideline is what makes Bayern's left flank so dangerous, not just Ribery. Same with Lahm on the other side with Robben.

Traditionally, 2 and 3 are FB, 5 is CD along with 4, 6 is DM, 7 is OM, 9 is center striker. The others get shifted around as needed. If you play with back 3, 5 is usually the sole central defender, if you play with 5 in midfield, traditionally the 10 is the center and the 7 traditionally plays behind the striker(s).

This is purely academical, I currently only see positions mentioned by numbers when you're talking about the 9 (striker) or the 6 (DM). 10 is reserved for "the playmaker", whoever that is. Other than that, those numbers are phasing out of public consciousness, I'd say.

Edit: Yes, I've actually got a source for this: Read "Inverting The Pyramid". It's one hell of a good read of football history and how it evolved, beginning from the very first days to pretty much the beginning of modern football in the 2000s.

Edit2: And, naturally, Wildtree was faster than me. :P

[Deleted]

France really stole the Iceland thingy...i thought only a few fans did it during the game but i just saw the video of the players and the fans all doing it in the end of the match.

That's just stupid...Icelanders must be really angry.

Imagine how the mexicans must feel.
We still haven't given their waves back.