Valve seems to be making a carbon copy of Overwatch and its systems

[Jingoism]

You can't make an argument about the staying power of a game, then complain Blizzard murdered WoW, the MMO that dominated the market for 12 years now.

Also D3 isn't really a bad game anymore, it just had a REALLY bad launch. Sadly most people that quit due to the launch never went back to see that it's improved now.

At least you'll admit D3 was a trainwreck, that's good.

WoW has gotten objectively progressively worse with every xpac after wrath. There's a multitude of reasons it's hemorrhaging players, the reasons are many and I'm not one to beat a dead horse. I'm more interested in the murder of SC IP instead of WoW.

[Better]

As for WoW - it's been in decline for years. No matter what they once (somehow) managed to achieve, they've also managed to successfully counter over & over with their own idiocy.

I mean we don't have sub numbers anymore, but I'd be willing to bet that WoW is still the top sub-based MMO by quite a large margin, even durring this year long content drought.

[Deleted]

Don't you just love it when some random bloke skips over the entire thread & instead directly posts something as hilarious as this?

No seriously, scroll up a bit mate.

No need, it's a timeless statement. I'm responding to the OP, not the discussion in the thread I read through the post fyi, thanks for the tip though, I'll keep it in mind later

[Better]

I'm more interested in the murder of SC IP instead of WoW.

The SC one is actually pretty strange, from what I can tell all they did wrong with SC is not adapt to the current times. There was much more dev support than say brood war when the scene was at it's peak as an esport. It just kind of stopped having an audience (partly due to league blowing up).

[Deleted]

I mean we don't have sub numbers anymore, but I'd be willing to bet that WoW is still the top sub-based MMO by quite a large margin, even during this year long content drought.

Ah, the time-old "it's fine that WoW's lost 1/2-2/3rd's of its subscribers, because it's still several millions ahead of everyone else" argument.

Yes, & no. On the one hand, sure, it's absolutely still in the lead (by far). On the other hand, it's bleeding subscriptions at a ridiculous rate, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if it's had one of the biggest %-based drop-offs in MMO History. Income is nowhere near the levels they were at even just a handful of years ago, even with the Pet Store & Subscription Tokens shoring up some extra income, & that's a problem, because it signifies that Blizzard is indeed becoming stale, no matter what kind of money Overwatch may be bringing in now, as there's no guarantee of such numbers a year from now, or two if Blizzard has indeed lost its magical money-making touch.

- - - Updated - - -

They are absolutely innovators. That's all World of Warcraft does is innovate. Sure, some of the story elements and features may be stuff that other games have done before, but the systems and philosophies and how mechanics are implemented are innovative and stuff other games (not just mmos) utilize (or in some cases, completely fail to take advantage of) every day.

You don't seriously believe that, do you?

I mean sure, most of the WoW Clones fail to feature 50% of what WoW has, but that World of Warcraft, in 2016, continues to innovate? Sure, at launch, WoW was something amazingly new & innovative, but today, in 2016? Hell, I can't even remember the last time Blizzard did something innovative with W-

Oh wait, yeah, I remember now, yeah.... December 8, 2009; Patch 3.3 - Looking for Group.

[Jotaux]

Oh, it's always lovely to see the Cult of Blizzard worshippers vomiting out their delusions...... Alright then, time for some actual facts, instead of rampant delusions;

- DOTA was originally a Warcraft 3 Mod, created by a non-Blizzard employee person, who made it at a time when the WC3 World Editor didn't yet contain a "we own everything you do with this" clause. Blizzard tried to contest that exact thing in court, & totally, epically, utterly failed, which is exactly why DOTA 2 is called DOTA 2 today, instead of something else entirely.

Stopped reading right here. Blizzard only tried to contest the trademark and ultimately came to a deal with Valve that allowed the community to still make Dota custom games which was their goal. They "totally, epically, [and] utterly" succeeded.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Blizzard? Innovators? Regarding Diablo franchise perhaps, the other games? Not so much. More like "Hey, this type of game is somewhat popular, lets make our own and polish it further". Still waiting for Blizzard to get into the sports gaming scene.

In all seriousness, I've been waiting a long time to see what Blizzard would do if they stepped into the Survival Horror genre.

[Deleted]

Stopped reading right here. Blizzard only tried to contest the trademark and ultimately came to a deal with Valve that allowed the community to still make Dota custom games which was their goal. They "totally, epically, [and] utterly" succeeded.

They took them to court to stop them from using the words "DOTA 2" as DOTA 2's title because they were contesting it being a sequel to what they perceived as "their property."

In that regard, they totally, epically, utterly failed, choosing to accept Valve's counter-offer instead of walking out in total defeat. It had nothing to do with "player-created content" that was just the advertising campaign they were pumping out to make themselves look like the good guys in the fight.

"In the case of Blizzard winning the case, Valve would not be able to trademark the term "DOTA" and this would allow the creation of a new Blizzard title "Blizzard DOTA". Whether Valve would be allowed to continue using their current trademark "Dota 2" is still yet unknown."

"Claim: Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. ("Blizzard") believes that it will be damaged by the registration of the mark that is the subject of Application Serial No. 85/102245, and hereby opposes its registration."

Blizzard had years upon years to trademark DOTA before Valve came along, but they didn't. Then suddenly Valve starts a completely normal, totally standard procedure to trademark their new game's title, & bam! Blizzard jumps up & starts whining about it "because community rights"? Seriously? Because Valve doesn't respect their Community or something?

I mean come on, we're talking about Valve here, not EA.

[Ralikon]

that's good. competition between games is good, means more fresh updates

[Better]

Ah, the time-old "it's fine that WoW's lost 1/2-2/3rd's of its subscribers, because it's still several millions ahead of everyone else" argument.

Yes, & no. On the one hand, sure, it's absolutely still in the lead (by far). On the other hand, it's bleeding subscriptions at a ridiculous rate, to the point where I wouldn't be surprised if it's had one of the biggest %-based drop-offs in MMO History. Income is nowhere near the levels they were at even just a handful of years ago, even with the Pet Store & Subscription Tokens shoring up some extra income, & that's a problem, because it signifies that Blizzard is indeed becoming stale, no matter what kind of money Overwatch may be bringing in now, as there's no guarantee of such numbers a year from now, or two if Blizzard has indeed lost its magical money-making touch.

MMOs as a genre are dying right now, yes WoW has declined, but the actual losses are inflated partly by the fact that the kids that grew up on MMOs are now leaving college and getting jobs/families, and just don't have time anymore for them. The new generation of PC gamers seems to be mostly going towards MOBAs, or FPS, and some hearthstone too I'm sure.

[Thetruth1400]

Blizzard are not really innovators. They're refiners.

And it's not exactly shocking for any developer to see a successful game and want to try get in on that success. Blizzard did it themselves with HoTS.

That's a pretty good way to describe them.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, tons of people called Overwatch a TF2 ripoff from the start as well. Not only that, everything that the OP is talking about isn't something that Overwatch created, they were already existing in one form or another from other games. Like this poster says, Blizzard aren't innovators, they just copy and paste what works from other games.

I, in all seriousness, can't remember the last time Blizzard did anything innovative, but then again, I could say that for most of the games industry as well.

[Deleted]

MMOs as a genre are dying right now, yes WoW has declined, but the actual losses are inflated partly by the fact that the kids that grew up on MMOs are now leaving college and getting jobs/families, and just don't have time anymore for them. The new generation of PC gamers seems to be mostly going towards MOBAs, or FPS, and some hearthstone too I'm sure.

Sure, no doubt a % of the unsubs is due to people growing up & no longer having any time for WoW, but overall I doubt it's one of the primary reasons, unlike say people becoming more & more irritated with Blizzard's never-ending & completely arbitrary "we feel" changes, or whatnot, which have lead to perceived reductions in the quality of each subsequent Expansion Pack to date (not to mention the vast lack of content in Draenor).

Subscription-model MMO's is likely also another cause of declining subscription numbers in general, but I wouldn't exactly attribute millions of lost subs to that excuse either. It's a reason, they both are, but it's not one of the [major] reasons.

[Jaylock]

That's a pretty good way to describe them.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, tons of people called Overwatch a TF2 ripoff from the start as well. Not only that, everything that the OP is talking about isn't something that Overwatch created, they were already existing in one form or another from other games. Like this poster says, Blizzard aren't innovators, they just copy and paste what works from other games.

Thats like saying that if anyone else makes an FPS game, its not new.

Overwatch, although it is an FPS at its core, the type of FPS is completely new. And although team fortress 2 has several of the same class types that overwatch does, it really wasnt a competitive team based game. It was more of a "i pick a class and do what I want for fun" type game.

The success of a 6 player team in Overwatch Highly Depends on the team choosing a Hero comp that works well together. The heroes themselves have specific abilities that create synergy to defeat the other team. Team Fortress 2 was more of a self service class based FPS. The skill of a sniper on your team didn't mean that the game is won or lost by having that sniper on your team.

No other game was classified as a "Hero Team Based FPS" which the classes are not just a class, they are a Hero with specific abilities, and a backstory.

Where is the "Ult" in TF2? I only see Ults in HoTS and Overwatch.

Overwatch is the leader in the Hero Based FPS genera.

[Very Tired]

Yeah, this isn't a serious thread. But it's good to see people learning to ignore the OP and just focus on a discussion on other's comments.

Yes, Overwatch copied a ton from TF2, then a bit from other games as well but mostly from TF2. But even with that they failed to capture the magical aspects that made TF2 so great and long lasting. This new update for TF2 is basically an improved version of what has already existed unofficially in the TF2 community.

[wowaccounttom]

Blizzard are not really innovators. They're refiners.

And it's not exactly shocking for any developer to see a successful game and want to try get in on that success. Blizzard did it themselves with HoTS.

Ram and Rem <3

[Zelendria]

Every FPS after Doom was considered a clone at first. We have come a long way in not calling games of the same genre clones till then.

Doom didn't come first Wolfenstein 3D did.

Valve might make a decent game, but fawk they look boring and unimaginative.

[Deleted]

Doom didn't come first Wolfenstein 3D did.

Valve might make a decent game, but fawk they look boring and unimaginative.

It's dated, like what, ten years old?!

[Ausr]

TF2 hasn't been relevant for years, who gives a shit?

[Caolela]

Well Overwatch pretty much copied TF2's entire class based FPS style of gameplay, so I don't see the problem with Valve copying some aspects back.

That is exactly the case. TF2 was out long before Blizz ever thought of OW, and Blizz glommed OW directly from TF2, not the other way around. And, before Valve got super greedy with TF2 it was a great game.

I played TF2 beta and Valve listened back then. The game was pretty balanced, had decent in-game voice, and was fun for about the first year.

Then they decided to start trading hats, and later other items. That's when it went downhill.

[Lucetia]

- DOTA was originally a Warcraft 3 Mod, created by a non-Blizzard employee person, who made it at a time when the WC3 World Editor didn't yet contain a "we own everything you do with this" clause. Blizzard tried to contest that exact thing in court, & totally, epically, utterly failed, which is exactly why DOTA 2 is called DOTA 2 today, instead of something else entirely.

They didn't lose per say. They lost, but won. Then and Valve came up with an agreement that allowed Valve to use Dota 2 without issue and I can't remember what Blizzard got out of it. It wasn't more of a Blizzard wants full rights to it, but more acknowledged that where it came from. If I wasn't posting off mobile I'd take the time to look for the ruling, but mobile is a pita.