[BETA] Affliction Warlock Discussion

[ThePhantombox]

Versatility is what it lacked. So good.

That was my thought process as well. Honestly I never found too many situations where the spec performed bad it's just that destruction is just still so strong at so much.

[Deleted]

Honestly, Affliction is not looking bad as a progression spec at all right now. The things Destruction is good at, a lot of other specs are also good(and better) at. On progression, adds will naturally live longer, making affliction stronger yet. Afaik, the change to the on-kill traits(making them on-assist traits basically) wasn't in on the last round of testing, so damage on add fights will go up by a lot.
The ramp up that was mentioned is also exacerbated in raid testing due to fights in general not lasting very long and Lust often just being used on pull so you see more of the fight. Lust on Pull with Writhe in Agony feels so unbelievably terrible and makes Affliction(arguably) look a lot worse than it should. Of course there will be bosses where that's the final strategy, but I assume and hope it won't be all of them.
One thing that makes Destruction a little bit more valuable than Affliction would be Shadowfury vs. Howl of Terror. Really annoying to not be able to take Shadowfury as Affliction.

[Deleted]

Honestly, Affliction is not looking bad as a progression spec at all right now. The things Destruction is good at, a lot of other specs are also good(and better) at. On progression, adds will naturally live longer, making affliction stronger yet. Afaik, the change to the on-kill traits(making them on-assist traits basically) wasn't in on the last round of testing, so damage on add fights will go up by a lot.
The ramp up that was mentioned is also exacerbated in raid testing due to fights in general not lasting very long and Lust often just being used on pull so you see more of the fight. Lust on Pull with Writhe in Agony feels so unbelievably terrible and makes Affliction(arguably) look a lot worse than it should. Of course there will be bosses where that's the final strategy, but I assume and hope it won't be all of them.
One thing that makes Destruction a little bit more valuable than Affliction would be Shadowfury vs. Howl of Terror. Really annoying to not be able to take Shadowfury as Affliction.

When I noticed affliction not having shadowfury, i pretty much immediately started reconsidering going destruction + demonology, instead of destruction + affliction. I'm mainly (or perhaps entirely) going to focus on mythic+ dungeons, and that is just so much utility to miss out on. I was looking forward to being able to selfheal like a king though, allowing the healer to mostly focus on the rest of the group. I guess tuning still isn't done though, might change my mind later on.

[wooters]

If you are planning your resources, when you are going to use them, and why.. then you are putting more than 0 thought into it. It can certainly be played braindead, but with how the artifact and its passives are designed you'll get braindead results.

all three warlock is braindead...as it just about keeping up our rotations and maybe focus something down from time to time with the press of a button. there isn`t real choices to be made, no need for having a brain anywhere as far as I can see. they had a choice of either do the specs the proper and interesting way...like this classic deserves, or going for some mainstream drivel which also had the "advantage" of being easy to design and simple to balance.. and surprise surprise

[ThePhantombox]

all three warlock is braindead...as it just about keeping up our rotations and maybe focus something down from time to time with the press of a button. there isn`t real choices to be made, no need for having a brain anywhere as far as I can see. they had a choice of either do the specs the proper and interesting way...like this classic deserves, or going for some mainstream drivel which also had the "advantage" of being easy to design and simple to balance.. and surprise surprise

Aside from the fact that I only understood about half of that... What exactly would you compare the warlock specs to? Where is your "pillar of complexity?"

[Baconeggcheese]

Aside from the fact that I only understood about half of that... What exactly would you compare the warlock specs to? Where is your "pillar of complexity?"

Don't humor him. There's no reasoned discussion to be had there.

[dooms]

any good addon for tracking dots.. that work in beta atm ? using affdots atm on live server

[striderZA]

any good addon for tracking dots.. that work in beta atm ? using affdots atm on live server

Don't think Affdots is going to get updated, and I don't know of any replacements yet.

I am using an Affdot-like Weakaura (well, sort of):

d4ZdnaGAciA9kqEPcI3QakBdrZui9BjnBQCAvDtfOURci9ncQdlv7uk7f2Tk2Vcv)uO6VeOXrugOcigkbegScLHlehKsXWKWXePZPqwOkPLsawSqz5cEOO0trTmeEovnrfKMkstwunDsxKsvxLsPlR01v0gvP(mLSzISDci9mr8vfGPjrFNG0ijG6KeeJwLy8kOUKcO6wIIRrHZtu9yk61uQCBcnsbfChuOG9GhircvbY1uZiq3G)RNbcyrW5GZbfS84ss(vrltQmdW(1jjqu)Jc(ACkn(GJA)nfCyT(6HkpYc2kuNraFMI0WBzTbpAPG)CWdSb0dUQPDd0XhZgjj3BQF9m(ydTshFSy9ayxTNdkyT72JckyXPtFqHcf80VcA66EpynmxWHU5ckyXPtFqHcfSu3u)6buWItN(Gcfkytx37bfS)pwUf8aSrarJNDiqbN)ssV50PYbfS40PpOqHcouDlOGfNo9bfkuOG3HJ0p5BoUcfSjOOLck4yDt7Sc15jpB1vdGIwjUjjtmme2GGGGOGSKSeszmkHcwQE0Bx3YdoUT0OcPzp4y9q2QRgafTuClmHWKLfLPfjYignsyzqkJrjAe4w2OIuIecIIsszgeeLqkJHbAjOLcfSR2ZbfS2D7rbfS40PpOqHc2019Eqb7)JLBbpaBeq04zhcuW5VK0BoDQCqbloD6dkuOGdDZfuWItN(Gcfk4PFf0hznXvWsDt9RhqbloD6dkuOGdv3ckyXPtFqHcf80VcA66EpUc2hznbfS)pwUfTuWItN(GIwcUcfkuW6lUHSvxnakAP42GGmPiPi1GqyHliiiHugJe0sqRak4WA91dvEKfCFg6X6bWETBANhXaR7W6mSGh6Q935hFmEd75v5GZFFexxoDhwJUsk4bUhSgElRnak4QqpXpo54k455vWApyTk48n2usIkpYcwGTrad(22OGpDX1dkAPGTXQEKdfS50RvrbV85ly9f3COGVSV1ffnIcW6lUHBx3YdoUT0OcPzpyDhw5FqlAPLG1xCd8pOfT0sWFoyBSQh50xCdGFZ6rq)NVGJA)nfSx7M25ZwD1aOOLIBzYingvmsMrjjjjjrcKYyKGgbULjJ0yuXizgLKKKKejqkJrcuWc9Z1lOruwa(mfPH3YAdE0sHIgbOGLhxsYVkAePGLQh921T8GJBlnQqA2dowpKT6QbqrJaTu0sqlfkyxTNdkyT72JckyXPtFqHcfSpYAcky)FSClAPGfNo9bfTeCfkuWt)kOPR794k4q1TGcwC60huOqbl1n1VEafS40PpOqHcE6xb9rwtCfCOBUGcwC60huOqbN)ssV50PYbfS40PpOqHc2019Eqb7)JLBbpaBeq04zhcuOG1xCdzRUAau0sXTbbzsrsrQbHWcxqqqcPmgjOLGwbuWH16RhQ8il4(m0J1dG9A30opIbw3H1zybp0v7VZp(y8g2ZRYbRH3YAdGcUk0t8JtoUcEEEfS2dwRc2C61QOGx(8fS(IBo4txC9GIwkyBpEThZTJpMnssU3u)6bk48n2usIkpYcwGTrad(22OqbR7WkIb(Y(wxu0ikaRV4gUDDlp442sJkKM9GptrA4TS2GhTuWVz9iO)ZxWrT)Mc2RDt78zRUAau0sXTmzKgJkgjZOKKKKKibszmsqJa3YKrAmQyKmJsssssIeiLXibky9f3a)dArlTe8Nd2wBOV4gal0pxVGgrzb4yDt7Sc15jpB1vdGIwjUjjtmme2GGGGOGSKSeszmkHcfTeqblpUKKFv0YusawQE0Bx3YdoUT0OcPzp4y9q2QRgafTu0kqJaTu0sWTSrfPejeefLKYmiikHugddOGD1EoOG1UBpkOGfNo9bfkuW(iRjOG9)XYTOLcwC60hu0sWvOqbp9RGMUU3JRGdv3ckyXPtFqHcfSu3u)6buWItN(Gcfk4PFf0hznXvWHU5ckyXPtFqHcfC(lj9MtNkhuWItN(Gcfkytx37bfS)pwUf8aSrarJNDiqHcwFXnKT6Qbqrlf3geKjfjfPgeclCbbbjKYyKGwcAfqbhwRVEOYJSG7Zqpwpa2RDt78igyDhwNHf8qxT)o)4JXBypVkhSgElRnak4QqpXpo54k455vWApyTkyZPxRIcE5ZxW6lU5GpDX1dkAPG5pYL6z8XI(sluW5BSPKevEKfSaBJag8TTrHcw3Hved8L9TUOOruawFXnC76wEWXTLgvin7bFMI0WBzTbpAPGFZ6rq)NVGJA)nfSx7M25ZwD1aOOLIBzYingvmsMrjjjjjrcKYyKGgbULjJ0yuXizgLKKKKejqkJrcuW6lUb(h0IwAj4phm)rUuprFPL(IBaSq)C9cAeLfGJ1nTZkuNN8SvxnakAL4MKmXWqydcccIcYsYsiLXOeku0kbfS84ss(vrldrkyP6rVDDlp442sJkKM9GD1EoOG1UBpkOGfNo9bfkuW(iRjOG9)XYTOLcwC60hu0sWvOqbp9RGMUU3JRGdv3ckyXPtFqHcfSu3u)6buWItN(Gcfk4PFf0hznXvWHU5ckyXPtFqHcfC(lj9MtNkhuWItN(Gcfkytx37bfS)pwUf8aSrarJNDiqHcwFXnKT6Qbqrlf3geKjfjfPgeclCbbbjKYyKGwcAfqbhwRVEOYJSG7Zqpwpa2RDt78igyDhwNHf8qxT)o)4JXBypVkhSgElRnak4QqpXpo54k455vWApyTkyZPxRIcE5ZxW6lU5GpDX1dkAPGZwdHze9RhOGZ3ytjjQ8ilyb2gbm4BBJcfSUdRig4l7BDrrJOaS(IB421T8GJBlnQqA2d(mfPH3YAdE0sb)M1JG(pFbh1(BkyV2nTZNT6Qbqrlf3YKrAmQyKmJsssssIeiLXibncCltgPXOIrYmkjjjjjsGugJeOG1xCd8pOfT0sWFo4S1qygr)6H(IBaSq)C9cAeLfGJ1nTZkuNN8SvxnakAL4MKmXWqydcccIcYsYsiLXOekuOGfOOLwsKcfa

Just copy the group and change the target to Focus if you want to track Soul Effigy DoTs with this too, I'm just using the aura display on ElvUI's focus frame for now.

[Slashkill]

The only thing I wish for at this point are long-awaited visual changes for aff, since nothing is really happening gameplay-wise..

[Deleted]

The only thing I wish for at this point are long-awaited visual changes for aff, since nothing is really happening gameplay-wise..

Yes, and don't forget new sounds to that... a massive part what makes the new melee overhaul so pleasing is the new meaty sounds. Ours still sound like they have for the better part of a decade.

[Kirroth]

Yes, and don't forget new sounds to that... a massive part what makes the new melee overhaul so pleasing is the new meaty sounds. Ours still sound like they have for the better part of a decade.

Once again, animation overhauls like what melee got take a lot of man hours of work. The Devs have already gone on record as planning to do a similar overhaul for casters, maybe going so far as to finally make caster weapons a more active part of the casting animations. It's just there's no way they can do all that in time for Legion release. So it'll be coming later, maybe in a Legion patch, maybe not until next expansion.

[Spunt]

Once again, animation overhauls like what melee got take a lot of man hours of work. The Devs have already gone on record as planning to do a similar overhaul for casters, maybe going so far as to finally make caster weapons a more active part of the casting animations. It's just there's no way they can do all that in time for Legion release. So it'll be coming later, maybe in a Legion patch, maybe not until next expansion.

That's why they pulled the camera closer. They didn't do all the work on melee animations for people to NOT see it!

[Deleted]

Once again, animation overhauls like what melee got take a lot of man hours of work. The Devs have already gone on record as planning to do a similar overhaul for casters, maybe going so far as to finally make caster weapons a more active part of the casting animations. It's just there's no way they can do all that in time for Legion release. So it'll be coming later, maybe in a Legion patch, maybe not until next expansion.

No one said otherwise. Blizzard stated that it will come with Legion patches. I was merely pointing out that I hope they don't forget about the sound effects, that are just as important as animations - if not more so. Sure, it takes time, but they've most definitely already done a lot of it already. Just didn't manage to get it ready for Legion release. If it doesn't come until next expansion, they've failed. But I wouldn't be surprised.

[Lightwysh]

What is the optimal way to use UA and shards? Spend em as you get em or build up and spam during burn phases?

[Baconeggcheese]

What is the optimal way to use UA and shards? Spend em as you get em or build up and spam during burn phases?

My kneejerk is saying that you should be focused on compound interest and *if* you're using contagion then maximizing up time. There's 1 trinket I can think of off the top of my head at endgame that could reasonably cause you to want to spend in that window otherwise I don't see a point to that.

[Kirroth]

What is the optimal way to use UA and shards? Spend em as you get em or build up and spam during burn phases?

First thing to realize is that burn phases are different in Legion. Stat buff procs are pretty much entirely gone as a mechanic. There's no weapon enchant and the trinket procs are almost universally straight damage. So you won't be pooling resources until you can react to major procs for massively increased effectiveness.

Which is not to say you can't create your own burn phases. After a bit of artifact progress Reap Soul will give you 5% shadow damage, 6% UA crit chance, and 10% UA crit damage. Which isn't massive, but might be worth pooling SS for. There's also fight dictated burn phases that might exist on a per-boss basis. Does the boss have a vulnerable phase? Are there widely spaced add waves that'll give you a 5-stack of Wrath of Consumption you won't be able to sustain? It's probably worth dumping SS on UA spam for those.

Alternatively, there are various options that reward spreading out your UA casts. You probably can't wait for Compounding Horror (the artifact trait formerly known as Compound Interest) to hit a 5-stack every time, but you also don't want to sit on a 5-stack and waste procs. So spacing out your casts and getting a couple stacks for each might work. If you talent Contagion you want to treat UA more like Wrath/Cata era Haunt and shoot for high uptime. That goes double if you get the Afflic legendary bracers that give you +4% damage for each target with an active UA on it. Or maybe you'll get the Afflic legendary belt that has a 25% chance to refund a SS if you cast UA on a target that doesn't already have UA. That'd also reward shooting for high uptime, just letting UA fall off each time before you cast it again.

So I don't think either is definitively the right choice. Partly it depends on your talent choices and artifact progress and legendary drops. Partly it depends on which playstyle you prefer.

[Deleted]

My kneejerk is saying that you should be focused on compound interest and *if* you're using contagion then maximizing up time. There's 1 trinket I can think of off the top of my head at endgame that could reasonably cause you to want to spend in that window otherwise I don't see a point to that.

Such a pity they nerfed CI (now "CH" apparently). We still play mostly around it then? So I guess it still makes sense to take it first (5 points into the tree), followed by taking Harvester of Souls and then pretty much just whatever, since not many of our traits matter much? Or would you say Fatal Echoes is more valuable than the 2 remaining golden dragons and should be pursued first?

[Baconeggcheese]

Such a pity they nerfed CI (now "CH" apparently). We still play mostly around it then? So I guess it still makes sense to take it first (5 points into the tree), followed by taking Harvester of Souls and then pretty much just whatever, since not many of our traits matter much? Or would you say Fatal Echoes is more valuable than the 2 remaining golden dragons and should be pursued first?

Fatal echoes is showing 6%, which sounds pretty negligible. I'd probably ignore it until later on, especially since you need to get the drain trait to get to it. Soul flame looks like a talent that could get very cheesy, I wouldn't downplay it.

CH is still up to a 25% dmg increase, whereas most of the end game trinkets are passives or damage procs. A trinket would have to be fairly strong to want to ignore that stacking bonus (like horn of valor). Especially when you're going to have to spend shards outside of that window regardless of a dmg proc, which you'd absolutely want to be spending shards to consume the CH proc instead of just worrying about not capping and missing them.

[bio347]

The thing about CH is that as long as you're not over-capping and losing stacks, you'll still be getting basically maximum benefit even if you otherwise ignore it. +10% damage to two UAs is exactly the same amount of extra damage as +20% to one, after all. The only time it's actually be a concern is during periods of enhancement, which are intentionally fewer in Legion.

[Kirroth]

CH is still up to a 25% dmg increase, whereas most of the end game trinkets are passives or damage procs. A trinket would have to be fairly strong to want to ignore that stacking bonus (like horn of valor). Especially when you're going to have to spend shards outside of that window regardless of a dmg proc, which you'd absolutely want to be spending shards to consume the CH proc instead of just worrying about not capping and missing them.

What I haven't seen anyone posting is a good comparison of CH proc rates versus SS proc rates. Can you reasonably wait to get 4 or 5 stacks of CH for every UA you cast, or will that make you cap on SS? In a cleave fight you'll be running Agony and Corruption on both targets, so relative proc rates won't change, but large add waves that all get Corr from Seed will probably shift the balance towards CH procs. Does that mean you'll want to have SS pooled so you can chain them into the boss and not waste CH procs, or will you need to be focused on adds at that point?

I'm also wondering over artifact trait priority order. CH is likely to be a lot less useful for leveling and world questing. Since my guild's first priority isn't raiding, it takes a while for everyone to level and run enough dungeons to be in raiding shape. So maybe I personally want to swing down to WoC then up and around through Soul Flame towards CH from the other side? I saw an estimate that you'll have maybe 13 traits by the time you're max level, and I'm not sure how big a delay getting CH 20th instead of 5th will be.