[Beta] Havoc Discussion

[Kaedis]

And someone else asserted that Demonic Appetite is reducing the Eye Beam CD with Feast of Souls. I've yet to verify this claim.

And confirmed, the lesser souls from Demonic Appetite are very definitely reducing the CD on Eye Beam and Chaos Nova.

Feels like a bug, but that's how it works atm.

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Have you reported the strange behaviour of EB, Demonic and Blind Fury on the official Havoc beta feedback thread?

Not yet, I tend to do those in bulk as I finish compiling information

[neck deep]

Well, the big question then is if the trinket is actually BiS or worth it. Might be a simple crit or agi trinket would be much better = /.

to be fair there are no simple crit or agility trinkets in raid so far this expansion. all of them have procs that we won't know how they function until they put a trinket vendor in or until we can test nighthold drops. as of now though it's very likely that a max rolled horn of valor from halls of valor is bis for every dps spec. they're gonna need to fix that.

[Tato23]

What is the regular cooldown on meta? And if that does focus just meta, how much of a help will that trinket be? Meta is still one of the greatest cooldowns in the game right? If we get it down to what? 2:30? How much of an impact does that have on burn phases and our dps overall?

[Deleted]

And confirmed, the lesser souls from Demonic Appetite are very definitely reducing the CD on Eye Beam and Chaos Nova.

Feels like a bug, but that's how it works atm.

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Not yet, I tend to do those in bulk as I finish compiling information

Fair enough. Probably putting there the information from the last page would be enough.

Don't agree with it being a bug, seems just good synergy between talent and artifact talent. If it makes for much higher DPS than the other choices on the 100 row, then they just have to tune the talent to bring it in line with the others (either by reducing the chance or the fury gained).

[Kaedis]

What is the regular cooldown on meta? And if that does focus just meta, how much of a help will that trinket be? Meta is still one of the greatest cooldowns in the game right? If we get it down to what? 2:30? How much of an impact does that have on burn phases and our dps overall?

Meta is baseline 300s. It can be reduced by 20s per point in Unleashed Demons, with up to 3 points placeable by default and another 3 accessible via relics. This gives it a range of 180-300s baseline.

The trinket itself represents a 21-24% reduction in the cooldown, giving it a range of approximately 140s - 230s.

How much of a DPS gain that is compared to other options in that slot remains to be seen. However, Meta is a very significant cooldown. Lasting for a full 30 seconds, it increases the damage done by Chaos Strike by 50%, Blade Dance by 100%, and increases our haste by 25%. It's somewhere between a 75% and a 100% increase to our DPS for the duration, depending on build, and with that trinket, can have as high as a ~22% uptime, before considering the meta from Demonic (which provides approximately 10-15% additional uptime).

If we assume it's an 80% increase to DPS for the duration, the difference between baseline (10% uptime) and that maximal non-Demonic uptime (22%) is about 9% additional average DPS, and it's better than that in practice because it reduces the average interval between usage by over half (300s -> 140s), meaning we can have it up for many more of the necessary burst phases in a fight.

[neck deep]

When I said crit or agi trinkets I meant those that were boring. like "oh and it does a bit extra dmg now and then" and not stuff that might change your rotation =p.

i see now. when you said boring, i assumed you meant something like scales of doom or malicious censer. a lot of the raid trinkets seem a bit underwhelming contributions to damage this time around. i know they're trying to avoid prophecy of fear and soul kappa-citor again, but, some of these so far aren't even 1% damage increases outside of their passive stats. that's not exciting have drop at all.

[Kaedis]

Fair enough. Probably putting there the information from the last page would be enough.

Don't agree with it being a bug, seems just good synergy between talent and artifact talent. If it makes for much higher DPS than the other choices on the 100 row, then they just have to tune the talent to bring it in line with the others (either by reducing the chance or the fury gained).

Posted it here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...9?page=65#1294

And it definitely seems like a bug simply because they seemingly very intentionally disabled that synergy back when they initially made the change to lesser fragments. In addition, while they like synergies between talents, they don't seem to be quite as inclined to have artifact traits synergize specifically with certain talents. This makes sense, too, since the overall design calls for us to eventually have all of the artifact traits, so having traits that significantly empower only specific talents makes that particular talent either overpowered with the synergy, or woefully underpowered without it. It doesn't seem like Blizzard's style to me to allow an artifact trait to dictate a talent build decision.

That tier itself is very obviously based explicitly on different ways of generating fury, with some additional side effects (Prepared gives you a bit more mobility, Demon Blades gives you open GCDs for utility stuff and a differing playstyle, and Demonic Appetite gives you some minor periodic healing). It doesn't seem appropriate for Demonic Appetite to also reduce the effective CD lengths of Eye Beam and Chaos Nova, especially when that occurring relies on an artifact trait. I still stand by my presumption that it's a bug.

[Segerr]

yep i have 150+ ping and cancelling it with that method is awfully unreliable.

jump + macro:
/cast glide
/cast fel rush

works quite well, lol.

I don't see the harm on using THIS kind of Animation Canceling, because you still move and you still need to predict where you go. Its faaaar more reliable gameplay for people with high ms.

[Deleted]

Posted it here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...9?page=65#1294

And it definitely seems like a bug simply because they seemingly very intentionally disabled that synergy back when they initially made the change to lesser fragments. In addition, while they like synergies between talents, they don't seem to be quite as inclined to have artifact traits synergize specifically with certain talents. This makes sense, too, since the overall design calls for us to eventually have all of the artifact traits, so having traits that significantly empower only specific talents makes that particular talent either overpowered with the synergy, or woefully underpowered without it. It doesn't seem like Blizzard's style to me to allow an artifact trait to dictate a talent build decision.

That tier itself is very obviously based explicitly on different ways of generating fury, with some additional side effects (Prepared gives you a bit more mobility, Demon Blades gives you open GCDs for utility stuff and a differing playstyle, and Demonic Appetite gives you some minor periodic healing). It doesn't seem appropriate for Demonic Appetite to also reduce the effective CD lengths of Eye Beam and Chaos Nova, especially when that occurring relies on an artifact trait. I still stand by my presumption that it's a bug.

You're probably right, makes sense.

[AngryCoco]

Hello prepatch july 19th!

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

Hello prepatch july 19th!

No Demon Hunters until before or on August 17th though. Many sads, much waits.

Aaaaaaaaaand still only two tiers of talents at 100 as well.

[Unkhrahuun the Atoned]

I guess we can only hope and be optimistic that DH's will come out a bit earlier than the 17th. Personally I'm hoping at start of august. But at least we have a set date for when they WILL be out at least.

As for the talents. I agree that it's a bit silly. Every class is going to have all of their talents except demon hunters. They could easily make it like it was with DK's where you gradually unlock more and more.

*nod*

Nothing here i can disagree with.

[Deleted]

Though i suppose they have to do something to prevent everyone rerolling to the best class

Limiting talents is a way to do that i guess.

[Deleted]

But weren't DH's doing poorly while questing? at least during some specific levels I've heard/read that they were struggling.

But Dude, Tattoo's and Double Jump.

Seriously though, from what i've seen and not played (#lolnobeta) So long as you can kill things at a reasonable rate, the orbs from shattered souls will keep you going.

[Justin-Sane]

Though i suppose they have to do something to prevent everyone rerolling to the best class

I agree, they should do something to prevent everyone from rerolling to the best class. Removing timewarp would be a good start.

[demonik]

quick question don't know if it's been asked before but, do demon hunters still get an illidari title during the intro quests and if so do they get to keep them or are they temporary?

[Emek]

quick question don't know if it's been asked before but, do demon hunters still get an illidari title during the intro quests and if so do they get to keep them or are they temporary?

yes, and permanent


and to add on to the previous discussion, i think quite a lot of people will be dissuaded from DH during pre patch (we're gonna be pretty bad w\o all of our talents) and leveling wont be auto win until later on so people might stop and go back to their main

[Deleted]

I Believe you get to keep the title, as it is what distinguishes you as the leader of your class order hall iirc.

[demonik]

yes, and permanent


and to add on to the previous discussion, i think quite a lot of people will be dissuaded from DH during pre patch (we're gonna be pretty bad w\o all of our talents) and leveling wont be auto win until later on so people might stop and go back to their main

I Believe you get to keep the title, as it is what distinguishes you as the leader of your class order hall iirc.

awesome thanks for the quick replies.

[Yoshimiko]

So I finally got into beta, and I immediately started playing around with the numbers I have access to. I was wondering what our Priority looks like for Demon Blades build.


Fury of Illidari
Chaos Blades if capping energy
Fel Rush if capping charges
Throw Glaive
Chaos Blade
Fel Rush

Is it really that small? Am I missing something?

Also, I'm using a really..bad swing timer through weak auras. Are there better ones out there? It seems pretty important.