Legion - Outlaw Discussion

[Wow]

Either they're attempting to balance everyone around that damage level.

Or they are just being terrible as usual. Almost every single beta rogues come out of them undertuned from some overnerf just be it goes live I wouldn't expect this one to be any better.

[ribthanwa]

Either they're attempting to balance everyone around that damage level, or the legendary bracer usage is so strong they'd been forced to balance around it, however i doubt that even the 3m+ crits from the item will be able to change discrepancy.

Also they Still havn't adressed the aoe issues seeing as we don't have poisons, multistrike and 100% hitchance any longer, These changes has created a very very undertuned aoe pressence for outlaw.

The only "underlying problem" is that we are undertuned. The ONLY thing that procs off blade flurry hits is NONleathal poisons. Yup. So if you guys are saying our AoE is undertuned, you have two possibilities, either the 35% cleave from blade flurry is too weak, or our ST damage is too weak. Poisons, auto attack hit rate, and multistrike have nothing to do with it, because all of those only hit our main target, and mimicked onto our cleave targets. So, as long as things are balanced for us in ST, we will have good aoe. These weird scape goats are rediculous and we dont need any of them back

[Zoyt]

The only "underlying problem" is that we are undertuned. The ONLY thing that procs off blade flurry hits is NONleathal poisons. Yup. So if you guys are saying our AoE is undertuned, you have two possibilities, either the 35% cleave from blade flurry is too weak, or our ST damage is too weak. Poisons, auto attack hit rate, and multistrike have nothing to do with it, because all of those only hit our main target, and mimicked onto our cleave targets. So, as long as things are balanced for us in ST, we will have good aoe. These weird scape goats are rediculous and we dont need any of them back

you forgot that bladeflurry itself used to multistrike this is the change in highmaul that made combat decent for cleave

[Hexxidecimal]

The only "underlying problem" is that we are undertuned. The ONLY thing that procs off blade flurry hits is NONleathal poisons. Yup. So if you guys are saying our AoE is undertuned, you have two possibilities, either the 35% cleave from blade flurry is too weak, or our ST damage is too weak. Poisons, auto attack hit rate, and multistrike have nothing to do with it, because all of those only hit our main target, and mimicked onto our cleave targets. So, as long as things are balanced for us in ST, we will have good aoe. These weird scape goats are rediculous and we dont need any of them back

Except Bladeflurry hits also multistrike. But yes, fixing the garbage single target will help to alleviate our multi-target damage to an extent. Maybe even all the way. But they are going in exactly the opposite direction. Maybe it's a late game gear issue that is causing them to do this. I gotta hope so.

[XZlayeD]

Except Bladeflurry hits also multistrike. But yes, fixing the garbage single target will help to alleviate our multi-target damage to an extent. Maybe even all the way. But they are going in exactly the opposite direction. Maybe it's a late game gear issue that is causing them to do this. I gotta hope so.

Right now if they're supposed to be at the level of assassination in ST they'd need to literally double the damage every single ability in the kit to make i comparable. Right now I can do 285k dps ST as assassination over a 250m period, whereas the same item level and artifact power my Outlaw does about 180k, where melee and main gauche is about 17% of my damage.

This is why the run through nerf confuses me most of all since right now it does LESS damage than a single rupture tick does for assasination, and that ticks 13 times for the same cost.

[dcc626]

Except Bladeflurry hits also multistrike. But yes, fixing the garbage single target will help to alleviate our multi-target damage to an extent. Maybe even all the way. But they are going in exactly the opposite direction. Maybe it's a late game gear issue that is causing them to do this. I gotta hope so.

i was watching pyllero from serenity doing mythic+ dungeons today as outlaw. 1mill+ on trash and 3-400k single target dps, hes fairly geared and has a legendary, so no idea what that means in the scheme of things.

[Sinist]

i was watching pyllero from serenity doing mythic+ dungeons today as outlaw. 1mill+ on trash and 3-400k single target dps, hes fairly geared and has a legendary, so no idea what that means in the scheme of things.

He is abusing a buff from Suramar.

[Narokath]

The only "underlying problem" is that we are undertuned. The ONLY thing that procs off blade flurry hits is NONleathal poisons. Yup. So if you guys are saying our AoE is undertuned, you have two possibilities, either the 35% cleave from blade flurry is too weak, or our ST damage is too weak. Poisons, auto attack hit rate, and multistrike have nothing to do with it, because all of those only hit our main target, and mimicked onto our cleave targets. So, as long as things are balanced for us in ST, we will have good aoe. These weird scape goats are rediculous and we dont need any of them back

Blade Flurry procs both Lethal and Non-Lethal Poisons on Live. There's a glyph to further increase the non-lethal proc chance from Blade Flurry. AoE isn't undertuned, the Single Target capabilities are in shambles and completely abhorrent; AoE has a direct correlation of Single Target. Poisons have a lot to do with AoE capabilities as they aren't bound by Blade Flurry's 35%. You can literally see this on any log with a Rogue cleaving as Combat; Instant Poison starts creeping up way higher than abilities/auto the more targets you have. It's also why using 2 fast weapons is better than 2 slow weapons for AoE beyond a certain amount of targets.

Also, why are you even still around? Shouldn't you be plagiarizing something?

[Zoopercat]

For those of you running sims on the AMR simulator, I wanted to let you know we just updated the site with the latest beta patch. You can run updated sims on our beta site.

And remember, you can easily verify all of our implementations. For example, Slice and Dice is updated to 100% attack speed increase. You can find it in the Effects section under "Attack Speed," listed as Amount = 1 (for 100% percent).

You can also see the Run Through updates, 85% AP (and multiples of 85% for each combo point). This one takes a bit of explaining. In the Damage section, you see the formula that starts with the orange word, 'damage' ? So there you see the 0.85% multiplier. But then you have to make sure you multiply that by the # of combo points you used. So go back to the first line in the damage formula, the teal "=AlternatePowerSpent" and that is your multiplier.

Browse the spells on the left menu if you want to check out other ones. The idea with this wiki style info is that it's easy(ish) to verify and you can have confidence that things are implemented correctly (or find bugs quickly).

Other updates:

• We have the client program available now (get it here), so you can target lower margins of error. You still use the website to setup sims and view reports, while the client operates in the background to use your own computer's cores.
• We also have all dps set bonuses implemented and about half of the legendaries (working on finishing those this week). Trinkets are still being worked on, so hang tight on those.
• We also moved the consumables out of the rotation and into the options when you setup a simulation.
• A few bug fixes.
• If you have questions, hit us up here, on Discord or our forums. And for help, this page has some resources.
  

[lawomous]

I've never noticed it before, but I think new in this build, Ruthlessness + Deeper Stratagem is now sometimes refunding me 2 combo points.
Before I think it only ever gave 1CP.

In the combat log:
Your Combo Point energized you 1 (Combo Point).
Your Combo Point energized you 1 (Combo Point).

[elfporn]

I've never noticed it before, but I think new in this build, Ruthlessness + Deeper Stratagem is now sometimes refunding me 2 combo points.
Before I think it only ever gave 1CP.

In the combat log:
Your Combo Point energized you 1 (Combo Point).
Your Combo Point energized you 1 (Combo Point).

The 6th CP grants an additional roll at 20% per cp ie: 6th means you have a 20% chance on an additional proc for per cp based abiltities, including alacrity, ruthlessness, Master of Shadows, and i think i'm forgetting one. It's why deeper strat is so nice, on top of the extra damage.

[Mafic]

Blizzard needs to decide two things about Outlaw:

1. It is it going to be focused on yellow attacks or white attacks?
2. The mastery needs to become relevant again.

Right now, Outlaw seems to be all about Saber slashes and fishing for buffs. You pretty much ignore Run through most of the time as Between the Eyes is better in a lot of situations (especially with Shark Infested waters).

Is this what they want out of the spec?

[redtarty]

it doesnt even matter at this point, the spec could play smooth and be all nice and everything but as long as it does no competitive damage in any scenario it wont get any play. I'd play outlaw in its current state with fishing for buffs and just keeping ghostly strike up as long as i can actually compete.

[Shekora]

Seriously?? level 110 ilvl 802 orc



Outlaw will be UNPLAYABLE unless it is buffed.

[Deleted]

Seriously?? level 110 ilvl 802 orc



Outlaw will be UNPLAYABLE unless it is buffed.

Dude I say again, that is very far from being reliable of true dps. Wait for it to be more polished, or for shadowcraft etc.

Outlaw is indeed weaker, but very far from what you posted there.

[Gentlepenguin]

Dude I say again, that is very far from being reliable of true dps. Wait for it to be more polished, or for shadowcraft etc.

Outlaw is indeed weaker, but very far from what you posted there.

You're saying it's unreliable, the creators are saying it's pretty close to accurate. What exactly are they missing that's causing Outlaw to sim at half the damage of other specs?

[Deleted]

You're saying it's unreliable, the creators are saying it's pretty close to accurate. What exactly are they missing that's causing Outlaw to sim at half the damage of other specs?

Real life testing on beta says it´s by no means half, also Sub is NOT 20% below assassination, it´s pretty much tied or even a bit ahead.

[Korkk]

Real life testing on beta says it´s by no means half, also Sub is NOT 20% below assassination, it´s pretty much tied or even a bit ahead.

Proof? Not being a jerk, just would like to see the data.

[Gentlepenguin]

Real life testing on beta says it´s by no means half, also Sub is NOT 20% below assassination, it´s pretty much tied or even a bit ahead.

Patchwerk test or watching that guy streaming and exploiting a buff?

[Wow]

Seriously?? level 110 ilvl 802 orc

Outlaw will be UNPLAYABLE unless it is buffed.

Outlaw is unplayable it's dmg is awful no matter if it's aoe or single it's really bad. Which makes it very weird how they buffed it and reverted the buffs and did more nerfs on it lol and the buffs weren't even enough. The biggest issue is not only is it behind at it's base it gains barely anything from the artifact which is why it's so bad.

So even if they bring the spec up base vs base it will get left behind once artifact's start getting filled in. Sub is mostly even with assassin at it's base but after the artifact assassin takes off again. I don't think assassination's traits are really that strong after the nerfs but some of sub's and almost all of outlaw's are bad.