[BETA] Demonology Warlock Discussion

[Woz]

You can also cast Summon Dreadstalker if you want (followed by Demonic empowerment), but apparently the 2 soul shards spent on that are generally better used for Hand of Gul'Dan. (Need verification on that, though.)

No...You definitely cast Dreadstalker on CD.

Woudlnt call dreadstalkers be used on CD?

Yes.

You would think so, but multiple people are reporting that their low damage makes them not worth the soul shard cost.

I am only saying what other folks are reporting as the current sitaution. Nothing is set in stone and I'm making no claims of being an expert.

Edit: To be clear I'm certainly not trying to spread misinformation. It's just my understanding that the two shards used for Dreadstalkers only becomes a DPS gain over using them on Hand of Gul'Dan with specific talent/artifact trait specs. If that's not the case then I'm happy to be wrong because I don't want that to be the case.

Who is reporting their low damage makes them not worth casting? Because that's definitely not the case. In terms of damage they do for 2 shards vs damage 2 Imps do with a 2 Shard HoG is astronomically in favour of Dreadstalkers. It's always worth casting Dreadstalker over Imps, period.

Also in terms of TKC damage they are huge as well;


^{Clicking on the picture brings you to the full spreadsheet.}

2 Dreadstalker = 250% damage gain on TKC, 2 Wild Imps = 94%.

In short, Dreadstalkers are good.

[striderZA]

Who is reporting their low damage makes them not worth casting? Because that's definitely not the case. In terms of damage they do for 2 shards vs damage 2 Imps do with a 2 Shard HoG is astronomically in favour of Dreadstalkers. It's always worth casting Dreadstalker over Imps, period.

There is one training dummy in the Dreadscar Rift where the Dreadstalkers bug out. I've had several parses of 30-35 million total damage where my dreadstalkers did less than 1 million damage there, and that's from casting them pretty much on CD. So yea, that ain't right. The worm boss in Neltharion's lair is also wonderful for demo from the few runs that I have done, both the Imps and Dreadstalkers bug out completely for me there, and they end up doing a fraction of their normal damage.

[Woz]

There is one training dummy in the Dreadscar Rift where the Dreadstalkers bug out. I've had several parses of 30-35 million total damage where my dreadstalkers did less than 1 million damage there, and that's from casting them pretty much on CD. So yea, that ain't right. The worm boss in Neltharion's lair is also wonderful for demo from the few runs that I have done, both the Imps and Dreadstalkers bug out completely for me there, and they end up doing a fraction of their normal damage.

Oh. Well that might explain where that comes from.

I use PvP toon to test things on since no gear inconsistencies and he's just parked in Exodar. Might explain why I've never even seen that to begin with.

[striderZA]

1. Does doom go off even if you refresh it?

Yes, Doom is subject to partial ticks so you will not prevent it from ticking to generate a shard if you refresh it early.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh. Well that might explain where that comes from.

I use PvP toon to test things on since no gear inconsistencies and he's just parked in Exodar. Might explain why I've never even seen that to begin with.

Yeah that's not a bad idea, I'm going to try that at some point. The character that I'm testing on has buttloads of mastery (>8000) with okay-ish trinkets.

[Woz]

Yeah that's not a bad idea, I'm going to try that at some point. The character that I'm testing on has buttloads of mastery (>8000) with okay-ish trinkets.

Ya it gives you a good controlled environment so things don't look skewed. Also testing naked + Artifact is also decent way of testing as long as the artifact is 750 (base).

[striderZA]

Ya it gives you a good controlled environment so things don't look skewed. Also testing naked + Artifact is also decent way of testing as long as the artifact is 750 (base).

That spreadsheet though 8)

[Woz]

That spreadsheet though 8)

Which one .

[striderZA]

Which one .

All of them!

The openers are pretty much the same as I've been doing, aside from precasting Demonic empowerment. Also noticed they were using Soul Harvest, and I was going with Power Trip. How do they compare? Testing is a bit limited at the moment with the world server being borked.

[Woz]

All of them!

The openers are pretty much the same as I've been doing, aside from precasting Demonic empowerment. Also noticed they were using Soul Harvest, and I was going with Power Trip. How do they compare? Testing is a bit limited at the moment with the world server being borked.

The opener sheets were basically made to see how much you can maximize pets for TKC and Soul Harvest. I'm not sure of the best way to emulate Power Trip Soul Shard generation in a spreadsheet anyway so couldn't say for sure. In practice between Power Trip, Hand of Doom and Soul Harvest they're all fairly equal. Soul Harvest can have huge upside if you can time it properly, whereas Power Trip is 'reliable' Soul Shards and Hand of Doom is QoL single target and huge value for 2+ targets, eliminates multiple globals used on Doom.

[Edgary]

Hey all, I've been trying to learn Demo on the PTR, getting wrecked constantly but thats to be expected. My question is, has anyone else that is playing this spec been topping the healing meters? I've consistently been top 2 or 3 when I do random BGS, what am I doing wrong because according to my memory ive just been trying to kill people and occasionally use drain life.

[striderZA]

Hey all, I've been trying to learn Demo on the PTR, getting wrecked constantly but thats to be expected. My question is, has anyone else that is playing this spec been topping the healing meters? I've consistently been top 2 or 3 when I do random BGS, what am I doing wrong because according to my memory ive just been trying to kill people and occasionally use drain life.

Soul link heals for quite a bit, along with the large absorbs you gain from Soul Leech (if you take Demon Skin) and Dark Pact.

[xuros]

Haste > Mastery >= Crit >> Vers

Crit and Mastery will be mostly equal until a certain level of Crit (probably around 20%ish) then Mastery will take over. Completely hypothetical, of course but that's my feeling so far.

Guess I should hold onto Enchanting then to change enchants when I respec demo to destro lol...because you know I have to buy a spider mount when the xpack hits! (JK BTW bout the spider mount)

[Woz]

Guess I should hold onto Enchanting then to change enchants when I respec demo to destro lol...because you know I have to buy a spider mount when the xpack hits! (JK BTW bout the spider mount)

Why? Haste is best stat for Destro too ^.^

Edit: Also I'm not sure if the bonuses to neck enchant stack from rings (ie going double haste, etc) or if it only counts 1 which would encourage using multiple enchants.

[Lightwysh]

When do you use TKC? is it an "on CD" type thing? Or is it something thats gonna require an addon to track the optimal time?

[Dominus89]

When do you use TKC? is it an "on CD" type thing? Or is it something thats gonna require an addon to track the optimal time?

You use it whenever you have the most amount of demons up, so yes.. you'll need an addon or a weakaura to track it since the default UI only tells you that you have demons of that type up, but not how many.

[Yorindesarin]

You use it whenever you have the most amount of demons up, so yes.. you'll need an addon or a weakaura to track it since the default UI only tells you that you have demons of that type up, but not how many.

This is what makes me love the new demo so much. It literally REQUIRES a way to track something. But meta demo... that was too hard due to requiring tracking. xD

[wooters]

Why? Haste is best stat for Destro too ^.^

Edit: Also I'm not sure if the bonuses to neck enchant stack from rings (ie going double haste, etc) or if it only counts 1 which would encourage using multiple enchants.

Imo mastery will be best if you look at the whole package for progression raids. that extra defensive shield is a nice thing to have.. and the balance between stats are probably going to be adjusted relatively tight. but we will see when the time comes

[Baconeggcheese]

When do you use TKC? is it an "on CD" type thing? Or is it something thats gonna require an addon to track the optimal time?

Whenever you have your average amount of demons out within reason of the CD, which should basically work out to on CD~ish after you get your opener demons out. It's cd is way too short to really sit on it for very long, and you're realistically only getting so many demons out.

[rhorle]

This is what makes me love the new demo so much. It literally REQUIRES a way to track something. But meta demo... that was too hard due to requiring tracking. xD

Except an addon isn't required. With the Default UI all you would miss out on is the imp count in each group. The Default UI adds an icon under your unit frame for HoG imps and Dreadstalkers. Each cast of HoG adds a new icon. You really shouldn't be delaying TKC in order to get two more imps in each group because that will further delay it down the line.

[Yorindesarin]

Except an addon isn't required. With the Default UI all you would miss out on is the imp count in each group. The Default UI adds an icon under your unit frame for HoG imps and Dreadstalkers. Each cast of HoG adds a new icon. You really shouldn't be delaying TKC in order to get two more imps in each group because that will further delay it down the line.

Personally, I would track this regardless of if the crappy default UI did it or not. However you seemed to have missed the point. It wasn't required to have addons to play meta demo either. But according to blizzard it was. Almost anyone worth a pinch of salt (mythic raiders) will be tracking the amount of demons they have out before they use TKC. Meaning they will use a weakaura or some such to do so. That is just fact. You wouldn't currently decide to not track your dark soul cooldown/buff and just willy nilly throw out all your big burst on any of the specs would you? So why would using TKC be different... I'm not saying you would delay it. What I'm saying is that it will be required to track the amount of demons you have out.