Master Loot VS Personal Loot Debate

[DrPeanut]

Can we get a debate going on whether raiding guilds should use Personal loot over Master loot? I feel that with the new changes allowing the trading of items that aren't upgrades, personal loot has become more appealing. But is it appealing enough? Does the control that Master loot provides trump this new loot system?

Along with this, I have a question regarding personal. I was told that it rewarded more pieces of loot on average. Is that the case?

[Eleccybubb]

Raiding guilds can use whatever loot system they choose to as can pugs.

[apelsinjuice]

If the guild have a good loot system Master looter is fine, but sometimes I just prefer personal loot to avoid all the drama tbh.

[Tehterokkar]

Master loot will still be the most popular form of loot among Mythic guilds because of the control it offers.

You can better plan for next bosses when you can decide who gets the loot, for example if a class was good on the fight you just killed and they get a Titanforged piece of loot(through personal) and their class is bad on the next fight meaning they will be on the bench, then you just wasted a loot drop.

[Flatspriest]

PuGs should use Personal Loot rather than Master Loot so that everyone actually has a chance at loot. As far as raiding guilds go, they can choose whichever loot method suits them as they are, or should be, a cohesive group of people who know and trust each other to not have the loot drama that PuGs have when the ML takes everything or just gives the loot out to his/her friends instead of anyone else who was eligible.

[Jellospally]

Personal Loot is still bad as always. Its a alright 5 man thing, but unless you are just pugging it really isn't good enough. It literally would have to be like double loot increase over ML on average to make it something worth considering in raiding and even then in split raids we would never use PL even if it was double loot since you can't trade it unless its equal or lower ilvl.

[Paula Deen]

My guild group currently uses Personal Loot.

I prefer Master Loot. Even if nothing drops for me with Master Loot, I still see all the loot, and I don't know if its just some chemical in my brain or what, but I feel like its better.

[RedGamer030]

My guild uses Master Looter right now, but when we raid in Legion we will be using Loot Council to prioritize gear to tanks and healers.
When I raid in PuGs, I like to see Personal Loot but I do not mind running with Master Looter.

[Puri]

Well, it might be viable to change from ML to PL starting from a certain raid ilvl.
Right now, PL is fine or even better than ML when nobody has any gear from the instance yet (but only amount of drops, you cannot alter the distribution which is usually more important to progress guilds), but it loses that advantage rather quickly the better geared the raid is. So (again ignoring a raid beneficial distribution and only considering amount of drops) initially starting with PL and then switching to ML would be the best way.

With Legion that changes to quite the opposite, you might want to use PL (for it's potential higher drop amounts) later on after your raid has reached a decent level of gear (with prioritizing the distribution the first weeks via the classic loot system). This way you can also fish for special drops that get more important at the end of gear progression, for example when one boss drops a BIS melee trinket (with a rather low default droprate) all of the raid druids or holy paladins can switch to the approriate melee spec.

It's a case to case decision for every boss, but I think it's rather likely guilds will switch to PL when farming the content.

[Tehterokkar]

My guild uses Master Looter right now, but when we raid in Legion we will be using Loot Council to prioritize gear to tanks and healers.
When I raid in PuGs, I like to see Personal Loot but I do not mind running with Master Looter.

You should prioritize DPS for gearing. Tank/Healing requirements are mostly a joke during progress. Gaining 5% raid DPS is far more useful than healers doing 5% more healing.

[RedGamer030]

You should prioritize DPS for gearing. Tank/Healing requirements are mostly a joke during progress. Gaining 5% raid DPS is far more useful than healers doing 5% more healing.

It is not up to me, it is up to the officers. I am sure though that if we encounter a wall during progression due to low DPS we will start prioritizing the DPS with loot. None of my guildies have Beta access so I tried to tell them early on in Emerald Nightmare Ursoc is a DPS check much like The Butcher in Highmaul.

[Bryce]

My guild uses Master Looter right now, but when we raid in Legion we will be using Loot Council to prioritize gear to tanks and healers.
When I raid in PuGs, I like to see Personal Loot but I do not mind running with Master Looter.

DPS before Tanks/Healers.

With proper CD planning healers can get away with the least gear as long as everyone isn't a derp and avoids damage that they can avoid.
Tanks are fine with the least gear as long as they don't get 1 shot by anything, which hasn't happened since like WotLK.

IMO giving tanks gear first just makes them worst tanks. It means they can make the mistakes, you don't want to make mistakes ever. And gearing DPS up first means the fight is over that much quicker.

Tell your officers they're wrong, gear the DPS up first as the tanks should not be dying unless they're meh.

[Deleted]

It is not up to me, it is up to the officers.

Sounds like you got shitty officers, time for an overthrow.

[Deleted]

Master Loot and Personal Loot are equal when you consider your mean individual chance to get an item. If you factor in group comp and gear progress heterogeneity, in terms of who can actually benefit (upgrade) from an item PL is objectively better than ML considering individual chance to get a useful item.

Master Loot gives more smoothed out item progression, where a boss always drops 4-5 items that are usuable during progressing. Personal Loot might, with exceptional small chances, give a total of 0, 1 or 7+ items per boss. Depending on your raid group composition and progression needs this might be important for you, but it is impossible to say one is objectively better than the other in this regard.

Master Loot gives you more control of loot. Give it to your highest DPS, most attending tank, 1-off set bonus player, etc. first instead of that trial you took along getting an equal shot at loot.

Personal Loot is more resistant to loot drama. Ninja looting, nepotism, etc.

If you are a cohesive guild where everyone wants what's best for the guild instead of themselves (like in a pug), go with ML.
PuG I would always advocate for PL so everyone gets a fair shot. Banning people from loot who don't deserve it shouldn't be done through loot but through removal from the group imho.

[pmkaboo]

DPS before Tanks/Healers.

With proper CD planning healers can get away with the least gear as long as everyone isn't a derp and avoids damage that they can avoid.
Tanks are fine with the least gear as long as they don't get 1 shot by anything, which hasn't happened since like WotLK.

IMO giving tanks gear first just makes them worst tanks. It means they can make the mistakes, you don't want to make mistakes ever. And gearing DPS up first means the fight is over that much quicker.

Tell your officers they're wrong, gear the DPS up first as the tanks should not be dying unless they're meh.

the thing is that gearing up one tank has a much bigger impact than gearing up one dps. and its not just about allowing them to make mistakes, which already is a huge advantage since tank mistake usually means a wipe, but a geared tank also needs less healing and can do more self healing, which in turn lets the healers focus more on dpsers, that means more mistakes allowed for dpsers, less deaths, more damage uptime overall. on the other hand what is one geared dps gonna do for the raid? reduce the fight duration by 10-15 seconds?

[Shadow Fox]

We switched to Master Loot; We've had several kills were no loot has not dropped for anyone in Highmaul, Blackrock, and HFC.

Rare, but has happened. Don't think it was fixed in Draenor, but Legion does seem to have it fixed.

[Tainted0ne]

I definitely think a PUG should always use personal loot to avoid any negative loot related situations. As for Guild, they can use whatever loot system they want. If you don't like their loot system than find a new guild. Not sure why there even needs to be a debate. Reasons on both sides are pretty clear. If you are an organized raid guild you want to control the flow of gear so that a trial doesn't take a piece and gquit. If you are pugging, you want assurance that loot is fairly distributed. Only way to ensure that is with personal loot.

[araine]

Personal Loot is still bad as always. Its a alright 5 man thing, but unless you are just pugging it really isn't good enough. It literally would have to be like double loot increase over ML on average to make it something worth considering in raiding and even then in split raids we would never use PL even if it was double loot since you can't trade it unless its equal or lower ilvl.

which is why personal loot is clearly the best choice. no risk of anything going wasted with personal loot and MORE drops as well really win win win is what they call that, only ones objecting to personal loot and sticking to master loot is folks looking to fuck over others and make sure the loot only lands on the select few that is approved by rhe raidleader nazi in place.

Really thats the case we have here master loot your best choice if you are the raidleader nazi looking to fuck everyone over just so you and your buddy can get EVERYTHING that drops.

Personal for more drops and a fair system in place.

Really thats all this boils down to.

[Tehterokkar]

the thing is that gearing up one tank has a much bigger impact than gearing up one dps. and its not just about allowing them to make mistakes, which already is a huge advantage since tank mistake usually means a wipe, but a geared tank also needs less healing and can do more self healing, which in turn lets the healers focus more on dpsers, that means more mistakes allowed for dpsers, less deaths, more damage uptime overall. on the other hand what is one geared dps gonna do for the raid? reduce the fight duration by 10-15 seconds?

If your guild has issues keeping tanks alive, you either need better tanks or a more organized healing team. Literally never has gearing tanks/DPS been the way to go(outside of Dragon Soul tier sets for Tanks, who got raid CDs from them).

And that 10-15 seconds is not only to avoid possible 0.5-0.1% wipes, but also helps with pushing certain phases at the right time, for example Archimonde Mythic 3 doomfire(early prog)/1 doomfire(nowadays) tactics rely HEAVILY on the DPS.

[araine]

We switched to Master Loot; We've had several kills were no loot has not dropped for anyone in Highmaul, Blackrock, and HFC.

Rare, but has happened. Don't think it was fixed in Draenor, but Legion does seem to have it fixed.

Already loot locked thats why no loot is dropping for you.

- - - Updated - - -

My guild group currently uses Personal Loot.

I prefer Master Loot. Even if nothing drops for me with Master Loot, I still see all the loot, and I don't know if its just some chemical in my brain or what, but I feel like its better.

That is just a feel since it is inferior to personal in amount of gear that drops overall.