30% Dungeon and World Content nerf?

[Deleted]

Well I was definitely never a FOTM player, so probly some under-tuned specs, but I was always top damage in heroic HFC runs (PuG and guild), so I doubt very seriously that I was awful on live... However, those under-tuned specs still handled the world content just fine, and if they are doing more damage now I doubt any other classes are doing less than the under-tuned ones were before.

Or maybe you are disgustingly awful at Legion :P

heroic LMAO

[Krom2040]

Mythics need nerfing, based on my experience on the PTR. I just wiped like five times on Bonemaw in SMBG, in a group of people from 715-730 (except for one DPS), where the tank and healer (me) all have multiple 8/8x CM gold experience (before HFC trinkets too). Tanks can basically solo Mythic bosses on Live, but in 7.0 the incoming damage feels out of control.

The tears are going to be flowing for a month and a half if they don't do a tuning pass, and in this case it's actually kind of justified!

[Schattenlied]

heroic LMAO

Sigh, you are one of those people.


I know how to play my class, just because it's not in mythic doesn't make my doing top percentile DPS for my ilvl suddenly not matter.
So, take your pompus attitude and shove it up your ass, we don't need people like you here.

[Deleted]

I know how to play my class, just because it's not in mythic doesn't make my doing top percentile DPS for my ilvl suddenly not matter.
.

yes it does LUL

[Kalisandra]

dps on PTR most definitely went down alot for most classes, besides the class changes you also need to keep in mind that buffs have been removed so thats a whole lot of stats we'll suddenly not have anymore.

I personally think the current 30% nerf to boss health is not enough to make the content actually feel easier, which has historically been their intention with the prepatch nerfs to raids.
The bosses also do 30% less damage though, and nothing happened to our healthpools so you'd think it would be easier anyway, which would be the case if healers didn't go out of mana so fast after the loss of spirit.

I think that it's also a matter of class survivabilty. Many specs have taken serious hits to their survival tool kits, and tanks need a lot more healing. So we have more healing required and less healing available. Not good.

[Deleted]

The nerfs they perform to raids at the end of an expansion isn't because players suddenly get weaker

The nerf doesn't mean class dmg is reduced by 30%.

Huh? Are you aware I currently simulate one of the best performing specs of my class to do 70K? I know you want to think the game is always the same but this time they did nerf them.

[Schattenlied]

yes it does LUL

No, it doesn't, performing fight mechanics doesn't effect how a class' rotation works... At most you may have to delay a cooldown or two for a few seconds.

[Bryntrollian]

No, it doesn't, performing fight mechanics doesn't effect how a class' rotation works... At most you may have to delay a cooldown or two for a few seconds.

If people are reporting a loss of 60% of their dps at mythic levels then yes heroic gear isn't what is important in the matter.

If you still think you can say otherwise you should link your logs before and after the prepatch.

[Schattenlied]

If people are reporting a loss of 60% of their dps at mythic levels then yes heroic gear isn't what is important in the matter.

If you still think you can say otherwise you should link your logs before and after the prepatch.

That's not what this is about - this became a question of whether or not I know how to play my class as soon as he decided to be a dick and pull the "disgustingly awful" remark out of his ass, gear not scaling as well into mythic anymore is irrelevant in that regard.

[theburned]

Are all the world mobs and dungeons also going to receive a 30% HP and damage nerf in line with the 30% HFC raid nerfs? It makes no sense nerfing raids but effectively increasing the difficulty of all non-raid content substantially.

Raids are very reliant on dps, and currently a lot of damage is coming from the opener, a lot of this is going to change due to how legion is designed, both classes and items, while this should have very little impact on how well a class plays out in the world, its massive in raids.

More importantly the damage would be unhealable, tanks don't have the mitigation, nor does healers have any answers for the damage, our raid cds are a lot weaker, and we are far more restricted by mana, also classes being balanced around legion with full artifacts etc means that some classes just wont do as good during the prepatch, this will ofc mean that mechanics are far more forgiving, especially for raids who have a decent comp.

[styil]

No, it doesn't. Nerfing the end raid at the end of the expansion by about 30% has been a consistent thing since Wrath of the Lich King with the stacking debuff. It's not about relative player damage, it's about letting players who weren't able to complete those raids have a better shot at getting them in right before the end of the expansion.

That sentence was worded poorly. What I meant was that the 30% hp nerf implies that it is offsetting the ~30% reduction to player damage that we are seeing on the ptr. If the damage is going to be this low when the game goes live, then not only does hfc need even more nerfs, but the dungeons and world bosses also need a 30% nerf.

[Relapses]

That sentence was worded poorly. What I meant was that the 30% hp nerf implies that it is offsetting the ~30% reduction to player damage that we are seeing on the ptr. If the damage is going to be this low when the game goes live, then not only does hfc need even more nerfs, but the dungeons and world bosses also need a 30% nerf.

HFC is the only relevant endgame content. There's not much to be lost in Mythic dungeons since they're designed around tuning at 665 ilvl. Even if players are doing less damage overall, Mythic dungeons will remain about the same difficulty as they were before the patch. And world content can be brute forced by the near unlimited number of buffs you can get in the open world which are not applicable to raids.

On the note of the HFC nerfs, however, it should be noted that of the people currently testing HFC on the prepatch, many are reporting the 30% debuff to be less than enough. Hopefully Blizzard adds an additional buff to player damage to make up for the lost DPS of almost 80% of the specs and the retroactive nerfing of RPPM trinkets. If they don't, it's very possible very few guilds bother trying to do Mythic HFC at all and instead just go on break until Legion hits. Many guilds already are on breaks but it'd be a pretty unprecedented move for Blizzard to be perfectly fine with content being more difficult in the prepatch.

[Deleted]

That sentence was worded poorly. What I meant was that the 30% hp nerf implies that it is offsetting the ~30% reduction to player damage that we are seeing on the ptr..

No. It does not.

A 30% nerf has zero implications. This is not a mystery puzzle for you to figure out.

There's a 30% nerf because there has been a 30% nerf with every obsolete raid that started around what, Firelands - albeit they were gradual, creeping nerfs then?

There are no implications or mysteries here. Please, stop this madness.

[Deleted]

As a 30% HFC nerf implies a ~30% damage reduction, an ilvl700 mythic dungeon pug today would take ~30% longer to clear after the pre patch (possibly much longer if groups are no longer able to kill the bosses). That doesn't sound very reasonable.



But this nerf is to counterbalance the player damage reduction from the Legion class changes, not because they thought HFC was too hard. Player damage reduction affects all content, not just raids.

This is wrong. The only logical assumption we can make is that the 30% nerf to HFC is the same they do at the end of every expansion.

Until blizzard says anything else its the only logical assumption.

[Bryntrollian]

That's not what this is about - this became a question of whether or not I know how to play my class as soon as he decided to be a dick and pull the "disgustingly awful" remark out of his ass, gear not scaling as well into mythic anymore is irrelevant in that regard.

If you're going to get so defensive about your " ability to play your class " you should probably have some proof for the statement you made earlier.

No it doesn't...

Also my damage went UP on the PTR on every class I have tried, so... yeah... There is definitely no 30% player damage reduction going on.

When you make statements like this with no evidence it is easy for someone to chalk your findings as " player error " because the line in bold shows that you don't know what you're talking about, and not knowing how to play your class isn't much of a stretch from that point.

[Wow]

30% nerf leaves it still a lot harder than live as players are doing 50% less dmg, tanks are made of paper, and healers heal for less so if they want to make it easier they need to nerf it 50-70% sadly. Which means they will need to nerf all of wod as if just nerf hfc the rest of wod will be hard mode.

[styil]

HFC is the only relevant endgame content. There's not much to be lost in Mythic dungeons since they're designed around tuning at 665 ilvl. Even if players are doing less damage overall, Mythic dungeons will remain about the same difficulty as they were before the patch. And world content can be brute forced by the near unlimited number of buffs you can get in the open world which are not applicable to raids.

On the note of the HFC nerfs, however, it should be noted that of the people currently testing HFC on the prepatch, many are reporting the 30% debuff to be less than enough. Hopefully Blizzard adds an additional buff to player damage to make up for the lost DPS of almost 80% of the specs and the retroactive nerfing of RPPM trinkets. If they don't, it's very possible very few guilds bother trying to do Mythic HFC at all and instead just go on break until Legion hits. Many guilds already are on breaks but it'd be a pretty unprecedented move for Blizzard to be perfectly fine with content being more difficult in the prepatch.

In your opinion.

Blizzard has already determined how difficult world content and dungeon content should be, so you don't have to. To ensure that difficulty is maintained following the "lost DPS of almost 80% of the specs", the world and dungeon content would also need appropriate nerfs.

No. It does not.

A 30% nerf has zero implications. This is not a mystery puzzle for you to figure out.

There's a 30% nerf because there has been a 30% nerf with every obsolete raid that started around what, Firelands - albeit they were gradual, creeping nerfs then?

There are no implications or mysteries here. Please, stop this madness.

This is wrong. The only logical assumption we can make is that the 30% nerf to HFC is the same they do at the end of every expansion.

Until blizzard says anything else its the only logical assumption.

Except this isn't like every other past situation where relative power was maintained. This time relative power has significantly decreased for everyone, not just raiders. So past logic cannot be applied here.

[Deleted]

In your opinion.

Blizzard has already determined how difficult world content and dungeon content should be, so you don't have to. To ensure that difficulty is maintained following the "lost DPS of almost 80% of the specs", the world and dungeon content would also need appropriate nerfs.




Except this isn't like every other past situation where relative power was maintained. This time relative power has significantly decreased for everyone, not just raiders. So past logic cannot be applied here.

Ofcourse it can. Something always changed but the constant so far has been that raids have been nerfed at the end of expansions.

Until we know anything else that constant remains.

[styil]

Ofcourse it can. Something always changed but the constant so far has been that raids have been nerfed at the end of expansions.

Until we know anything else that constant remains.

In the past, raids have been nerfed with relative player power maintained.
This time, raids have been nerfed with relative power player significantly reduced.

Big difference with big implications that require a bigger solution.

[Deleted]

In the past, raids have been nerfed with relative player power maintained.
This time, raids have been nerfed with relative power player significantly reduced.

Big difference and big implications that require a bigger solution.

Actually its quite common that the prepatch for a new expansion brings changes to classes that alters the difficulty of raids. Its been happening since at least TBC.

The TBC prepatch especially with tank changes, made aoe tanking a joke and a lot of things much easier