Using alinskys tactics against the far left

[Wells]

The ideas are orthogonal to left-right, so it can apply to either, however it is currently a bigger problem on the left.

Yup, another just right on it truth there. You've got us liberals pegged.

[Elegiac]

IMO this comes from a racist point of view or one that is oblivious to social inequality like a lot of conservative views. They see society as equal as in everyone has the opportunity to pull themselves up and become rich or whatever (if only the government didn't have regulations that made it harder). So, the only reason someone would need help getting ahead is because they themselves are not able to do it because the are inferior.

This is really the heart of it. Conservatism's whole shtick is the belief that any and all social ills are the result of moral failure on the part of the people suffering from them.

I.e. the viewpoint of rich and socially insulated people.

[GennGreymane]

Wow more BS on here than on a dairy farm.

[May90]

The opposite to "conservative" is not "liberal", it is "progressive". Well, or rather, "progressive" is opposite to "regressive", and "conservative" is in between.

[Theinquisition]

Yup its those damn leftists wanting to build walls, monitor people, regulate social lives, etc.

Naaa they just want us to feel guilty for being born a specific color because "privilege", import "refugees" who may or may not be criminals while other Americans live in poverty, and shred portions of the constitution they don't like.

[Acidbaron]

I think the best strategy is to be fiercely pro-free expression and anti-authoritarian. The left is powerless without authoritarian and silencing tactics.

If the right is "pro-free expression and anti-authoritarian", explain to me how conservatives in the US are against abortion, euthanasia and all that is around personal freedoms and choices, seems rather hypocritical to shout "freedom!" for some things but when it comes to other things they completely oppose it and prefer to even determine themselves what another person may or may not do with their body, what is a authoritarian trait.

Wasn't it also a conservative government that basically installed the right for the government to spy on people?

[The Stormbringer]

Is... is this a massive troll, or do people actually believe this? I'm not sure where to even begin with this list of idiocy.

[PC2]

...this is comming from the guy who is supporting a candidate who is stating his desires to legally silence media criticism!? And don't say "but he means slander" - you know damn well he means "anything that's insulting to him, weither it's slanderous or not - and will turn facts into fiction via lawsuits".

Both Trump and Hillary have some authoritarian ideas. My post was not claiming that either side is clean on the issue. Whichever side is more popular and sure of itself in a given time period will typically run into authoritarian and free expression problems.

[The Stormbringer]

If the right is "pro-free expression and anti-authoritarian", explain to me how conservatives in the US are against abortion, euthanasia and all that is around personal freedoms and choices, seems rather hypocritical to shout "freedom!" for some things but when it comes to other things they completely oppose it and prefer to even determine themselves what another person may or may not do with their body, what is a authoritarian trait.

Why, 'strong Christian values' of course!

[Elegiac]

Naaa they just want us to feel guilty for being born a specific color because "privilege", import "refugees" who may or may not be criminals while other Americans live in poverty, and shred portions of the constitution they don't like.

Remind me which side of the spectrum uses these talking points?

"Black culture is inherently criminal and violent"
"I'm wishy washy on immigration reform because my buddies in business and my rich constituents like the access to cheap labour"
"I think we should cut SNAP, subsidised housing, Medicaid, because 'handouts'"
"There are other amendments beside the Second?"

- - - Updated - - -

Both Trump and Hillary have some authoritarian ideas. My post was not claiming that either side is clean on the issue. Whichever side is more popular and sure of itself in a given time period will typically run into authoritarian and free expression problems.

Could it possibly be because the majority of people really don't care how free they are in terms of higher values as long as it doesn't impact them personally?

[GennGreymane]

Is... is this a massive troll, or do people actually believe this? I'm not sure where to even begin with this list of idiocy.

On a forum without Tennisballs, SuperTony has taken their place.

[PC2]

Could it possibly be because the majority of people really don't care how free they are in terms of higher values as long as it doesn't impact them personally?

I think most Americans do care.

[Adam Jensen]

Alinsky and the "far left" and all that shit is basically something no one gives a shit about outside of that weird brand of American conservatism that sees shit in every shadow.

Yeah. Here in the US, according to conservatives, you have conservatives and "the far left radicals." Nothing in between.

As a liberal . . . that sort of dichotomy is extremely annoying and inaccurate.

[Elegiac]

I think most Americans do care.

Inherently, no. Only when they're told to do so by people higher up on the social ladder.

[mvaliz]

I am very confident that a "you're the real racists" will not work as a strategic matter. This move concedes the frame that racism is the worst thing ever and that whoever's "racist" loses. Good luck with that.

It's things like what Tony is suggesting that scare me - as it eerily reminds me of one of the best Twilight Zone episodes: He's Alive

In short, a young Dennis Hopper is advised by a not-so suprising shadowy figure (Spoiler! Adolf Hitler) on how to gather the people and gain their respect.

To quote "They call us hate mongers! They say were' prejudiced! They say we hate minorities! Minorities! Understand the term, Neighbors. Minorities... should I tell you who are the Minorities? WE! WE ARE THE MINORITIES!"



Please Tony, watch this, and reflect on the people who lead your current party's own Rhetoric and even your own - this wasn't just a TV show, these are lessons taught to us by generations who lived through wars and events that both you and I never saw.

[Theinquisition]

On a forum without Tennisballs, SuperTony has taken their place.

Hey...you stop that

[Adam Jensen]

"Hostile to Christianity."

No, just the evangelical Protestant versions of it which encourage discrimination greed and continually try to back socially regressive legislation.

Indeed. Could not care less about Christians if they don't try to push their religion on everyone around them, which most of them don't.

But enough of them do.

[alexw]

/sigh

Tony, you really need to open your eyes and see that your party has been hijacked. The problem is your party has been hijacked by the very people you don't believe exist in your party - the racists who hate blacks, hispanics, gays, jews muslims, women, the poor, the middle class and all that you list. You may not be racist or believe you're not one - but honestly, for every one of you, there's 10 of the others, and denying their existence is NOT helping you - that's why Donald Dump won the bid outstripping a sensible guy like Kasick. Because there's enough racists over rational thinkers. I have plenty of fiscally conservative friends and they're now just beginning to realize this fact that their party is going into the toilet BECAUSE your peers catered to the Southern Strategy and courted not just sensible fiscal conservatives - but psychotic paranoid nutjobs as well hoping to get an edge. This is why there's been a sudden interest to go "libertarian" in an effort to abandon the ship that's been overrun by rats.

And are you seriously suggesting that Obama, a Christian himself, is attacking Christianity? PLEASE don't tell me you are one of those doinks who think he's a secret Muslim terrorist. >_<

Tony is 100% part of the problem you describe. Just go and look on the thread about education and why he thinks poor impoverished young african americans generally don't do well in high schools. Its not because they come from impoverished backgrounds, that their schools are dependent on local property taxes and so get little funding, and are usually staffed with the worst quality teachers. No, its because black people don't want to learn.

[Bollocks]

3) Wherever possible go outside the experience of the enemy. The GOP often foolishly retreats from social issues. This is a huge mistake in an era when 76% of the country is Christian and most liberals find sincere Christian beliefs to be repellent. We don't have to preach at anyone, wag our fingers, or turn into legions of Ned Flanders, but we shouldn't be afraid to talk about our Christian beliefs, stick up for Christians who are under attack, and hammer the Left for its anti-Christian bigotry. Conservatism is a pro-Christian ideology and liberalism is an anti-Christian ideology. We should never be afraid to drive that point home..

This is bullshit. As far as I'm concerned the only idea of liberalism that clashes with Christian ideology is Gay marriage and that's it. And even then the Pope said that chatolics should not be bothered by Gay people.

4A) Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. Conservatives have a tendency to try to win every debate with logic and recitations of facts which, all too often, fail to get the job done because emotions and mockery are often just as effective as reason. The good news is that liberals almost never have logic on their side; so they're incapable of rationally making the case for their policies while conservatives can become considerably more effective debaters by simply adding some emotion-based arguments and sheer scorn to their discourse. This has certainly worked on Twitter, where conservatives keep making the Obama campaign look like buffoons by taking over its hashtags.

Like what care to provide at least some example of conservatives using logics and facts? And please do go outside of feminism and ridiculous ideas defended by few. And addres bigger things.

I'm semi-conservative and don't stand many ideas of liberals, but this is the most bullshitty thing I've ever read.

[GennGreymane]

Hey...you stop that

What ever you do tony... never... and I mean never... add a smile or angry face to any of your thread titles... there is no going back.