Page 32 of 32 FirstFirst ...
22
30
31
32
  1. #621
    Deleted
    Recurring topic.
    If things were fair financial abortion should be possible.
    (will check grammar again tomorrow)

    Those who are negative about the notion always come with a one-sided argument making them seem hypocrite so here's a list with those points and make them double sided:
    • You could add some clauses with Financial abortion but that would need to be put on both sides, currently there are no clauses on woman side either. (reference to males will exploit financial abortion, ignoring how woman exploit the current situation)
    • As long as abortion is allowed financial abortion should be allowed too. (reference to if he had sex he accepted the consequences, this seem traditionalist but extremely hypo critic since abortion is possible)
    • If the financial support for the kids is the most important have the main bread winner get the kids by default like it used to be. (argument about how otherwise it would be financed by wellfare and kids are more important).
    • Look at the old social norms and use the one that promote a more stable family household. (reference to how the needs of the child is the most important element)


    Here are some other points toward hypocritical arguments.
    • Bodily autonomy, her body her choice. (also the emotional duress of pregnancy)
      - If it's not okay to force something upon her body, how is it okay to force a man's body into working to pay for the child.
      - If she alone has the choice to keep the child, than it's also her full responsibility. She better make sure that when she chooses to have a child, it’s with a father that also wants it.
    • We also force medical procedures on people, mostly when accidents happen.
    • She still has to pay more into the child and do the heavy childcare
      - It sounds like having a child is something horrible why did you not choose for abortion. For someone who likes children and hope to get children myself I see this as a huge insult. I really wouldn't mind being the main caretaker instead of the breadwinner. Really being the main caretaker is a privilege it's why people fight over wanting to get the child instead of fighting over not getting the child.
      - As for paying most for it, it depends a bit which country you’re in and the situation, in America it seems horrible and feels there are many scenario's where the man has to pay unreasonable amount. It also should be the case since you get the children.

    Adoption system and other
    Then there is the adoption system. I don't really see anyone mention it but when you compare the pregnancy situation compared to other situations it's just weird, it's like they don't care about the children.....
    • putting child up for adoption no welfare
    • Mother can secretly put child up for adoption without the fathers consent
    • Artificial insemination, weird how the requirements for adopting a child is higher than artificial insemination
    • Artificial insemination, woman can get this service despite being single (I do think it's great lesbians couple can get this and wish there would be good male alternatives that are financed to be the same price.

    Emotional element
    Now even if financial abortion would be possible, it would still not be equal. But I forcing abortion is a difficult line I'm not easily willing to cross.
    Another reason for that is the chemically emotional element pregnancy causes, but it's hard to define how much it's caused by the physical element and woman being more emotional. Because the higher emotional level of woman have should not be counted, this is because:
    • Males can have this emotional trauma as well when the woman chooses for an abortion. This is element is completely ignored.
    • Even though it's more likely to happen to woman because they tend to be more emotional, it is however not relevant with how we currently strive for equality (ignoring the hypocrisy) it's not about special treatments.
    To not completely disregard the fathers possible emotional element I'd suggest something like an uncle status if he chooses for financial abortion. This allows him to see the child 5 times a year and get photos of the child. Kind of like other family members usually have. If the father wishes more, the woman is free to ask child alimony in return.

    Disclaimer:
    Be aware this is mostly from the point of view for the parents because the children are always disregarded in these discussions and are just used as an excuse. If we really have the best interest of the child in mind we need major reforms to improve and promote the stability of the family house hold whatever it takes. Note that I mention stability and I'd like to add that children especially males raised from a single mother are much more likely to end up in jail or other bad stuff. This might be attributed to lack of direct male role model and the parenting the father brings.

    I also didn’t mention 50/50 parenting, have to look into this how it works and what the caveats are.
    Last edited by mmoc80faeb5a27; 2016-07-10 at 01:13 PM.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Nothing man child like about a sexist law system that doesn't even ensure the baby is protected while in the mother or lets the mother just drop the already Born kid off in a adoption agency without the father so much as even getting a say in it.
    Thanks for replying in a fashion entirely consistent with my point that modern men have been conditioned to whine about "sexism".

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by MeHMeH View Post
    Not as long as the mother objects, this isn't the same for the mothers them selves, she can give up the child without ever telling the father, so the father cant object.
    Like i said, applying a sexist rule to everyone doesn't magically make the rule not sexist, even though it is the same rule for everyone.
    Again, confusing de facto and/or common custody is not accurate to the intent of the law.

    If one parent chooses to abandon a child they are in custody of, the other parent if so desired can sue for custody.

  4. #624
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Again, confusing de facto and/or common custody is not accurate to the intent of the law.

    If one parent chooses to abandon a child they are in custody of, the other parent if so desired can sue for custody.
    About a year ago I saw a new article on a newpaper website in the netherlands that a new clinic was setup in belgiumwhere woman could anomously deliver the baby and anoumisly put it up for adoption and was writen as a positive thing.

    Admittingly I don't know what happens if the father brought up a lawsuit to get the child in netherlands/ belgium.

  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Thanks for replying in a fashion entirely consistent with my point that modern men have been conditioned to whine about "sexism".
    Wish I could thank you as well, but its clear you don't wish to have a constructive discussion on the matter at hand and even go so far as to completely ignore how even the unborn babies are unprotected from a mother who drinks or smokes regularly. But I guess its ok for women to yell sexism but not for men to point it out when it happens to them.
    Quote Originally Posted by scorpious1109 View Post
    Why the hell would you wait till after you did this to confirm the mortality rate of such action?

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantos View Post
    Wish I could thank you as well, but its clear you don't wish to have a constructive discussion on the matter at hand and even go so far as to completely ignore how even the unborn babies are unprotected from a mother who drinks or smokes regularly.
    It's an unrelated topic. I'll certainly condemn degenerates that drink or smoke while they're pregnant. I would have no problem with criminalizing this behavior, but it's not exactly high on my list of things to discuss. Unlike the people that are deeply affronted by the idea that a man should pay for his child, I have no trouble condemning degeneracy.

  7. #627
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Again, confusing de facto and/or common custody is not accurate to the intent of the law.

    If one parent chooses to abandon a child they are in custody of, the other parent if so desired can sue for custody.
    Now that is kind of my point, the intent of the law is what we make it out to be. Currently it is set on not giving males any rights concerning this, see baby hatches.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    It's an unrelated topic. I'll certainly condemn degenerates that drink or smoke while they're pregnant. I would have no problem with criminalizing this behavior, but it's not exactly high on my list of things to discuss. Unlike the people that are deeply affronted by the idea that a man should pay for his child, I have no trouble condemning degeneracy.
    You mean that a man should pay for someone else her choice?
    But really, i have shown you how the system that we have in place is far worse then the system we propose. If anything, there isn't a single more perversive incentive then giving single mothers all the money they need to raise their kids.

  8. #628
    Honorary PvM "Mod" Darsithis's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    51,235
    Repeating your 79 page closed thread to troll the forum is not acceptable.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •