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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Igi View Post
    I'm from Serbia and its actually very easy to explain.
    After WW2 we had an amazing country called Yugoslavia (which in today's terms is Slovenia + Bosnia + Croatia + Serbia + Montenegro + Macedonia). Yugoslavia was ruled by marshal Tito. It was some sort of successful communism. EVERYONE had a job, EVERYONE had enough money to do anything. For example my parents would travel at least 5-6 times a year, now we do it once every 3 years. Then Tito died, politicians fought for power, country split up, we started fighting each other like idiots. If you ask who started the war everyone will say "we only defended ourselves". That's why we all hate each other now, and even today politicians today use that hatred to steal as much money as possible. You know what they say, divide and conquer, if we fight each other we can't fight corrupted government.
    I have watched some videos and your explanation helped.

    I was under the impression the land was a birthright of serbs and croats and one went full fascit and tried to bully the other.
    I get it now, its the same old story, 1 man (regardless if you like his political affiliation) kept it together, after he died the more corrupt and selfish politicians tore it apart in a fight for power and control, sad for the people as usual
    Last edited by EternalBany; 2016-07-10 at 09:22 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalBany View Post
    I have watched some videos and your explanation helped.

    I was under the impression the land was a birthright of serbs and croats and one went full fascit and tried to bully the other.
    I get it now, its the same old story, 1 man (regardless if you like his political affiliation) kept it together, after he died the more corrupt and selfish politicians tore it apart in a fight for power and control, sad for the people as usual
    Indeed. And if you want to know if things are improving, well, its hard to say. Every time things start to improve politicians just add fuel to the fire and we're back where we started.

  3. #23
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalBany View Post
    Now THAt makes alot of sense, thank you for taking the time to write that.
    I know information is available to us all, but sometimes it is too much information and hard to pinpoint the important facts and events.
    Essencially to put in plain language the nationalistic serbs with a communist backdrop got invaded and had to duke it out with fascist croats in a dispute for the land - which both sides believed to be their birthright, and both commited war crimes, in the mist of things gypsies and muslims were knocked around plenty.
    No, you understood a part wrong. The idea is that after WW2, fascism was mostly shunned so the fascist Croats got killed, imprisoned etc. just like in most countries.
    Tito repressed nationalistic tendencies and it worked for a long time, as someone said, it took almost 10 years after he died for stuff to re-emerge. In this time both Serbs and Croats were communists, everyone was communist in Yugoslavia.
    Basically if someone similar to him had followed and managed to keep it together the same way for 30 or so more years, the old generation would have mostly died out and be replaced by a Yugoslavia-nationalist generation, ensuring that Yugoslavia would have remained united for most part. But that didn't happen.

    The point is that as Slobodan Milosevic appeared, he wanted power. Let's be honest now, he didn't give a shit of the Serbs, he wanted power for himself, that's what most corrupt politicians want. So he tried to force Serbia's might over the others. Obviously this was problematic. On the other sides the best way to gather the people and resist this was the nationalistic element. So that's what happened.

    As for Bosniaks, basically first Serbia targeted for... they weren't Serbians, so they fought with the Croats. But then the Croats targeted them because they wanted the land too, so they ended fighting Croatians too.

    Last but not least... in the Balkans we don't really like gypsies, so yea. This is true not only for former Yugoslavia but for the other nations around here, Bulgaria, Romania and Albania. It has to do with their traditions of theft and behaviour. You see, a gypsy tradition is that you can steal as long as you don't steal from your clan. Many gypsies still follow that tradition and we were unable to change it no matter what we did. Romania and Bulgaria entered the EU so many of our gypsies left for richer countries and give us bad names because said countries, after lecturing us on why we are not educating gypsies, now see why and want to send them back. Not all gypsies are bad. But those that are are very... in the front so to say. And they manage to gather a bunch of friends so they always seem more bad ones.

    Now, some other interesting things about Yugoslavia though:
    Macedonia is falled FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) because when it split from the rest of Yugoslavia and wanted to be called Macedonia Greece started to fear that they might afterwards claim the region of Macedonia from within Greece so they kept veto-ing the name of Macedonia wherever they could. This is why in some cases Macedonia is falled FYROM.

    Kosovo, now that's quite the thing. Basically the deal with Kosovo is that once upon a time it was the birthplace of Serbs. Over time however the percent of Serbs decreased as they spilled in from Albania (this was quite an issue during communist times as Albania was a hellhole, their dictator was horrible and built bunkers with machine guns all over the country every 200-500 meters and imprisoned and killed like crazy as far as I know so Tito's Yugoslavia was amazing even if there was the risk of imprisonment). Over time the number of Albanians grew over the number of Serbs. Kosovo was given a special status of autonomy. But then Slobodan Molosevic came and tried to kill them, so they started fighting for independence even after he fell. In the end they sort of got it, but not quite as many countries don't recognize them, yet it was for nothing, as Kosovo is a poor country too and most young people left.

  4. #24
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalBany View Post
    I have watched some videos and your explanation helped.

    I was under the impression the land was a birthright of serbs and croats and one went full fascit and tried to bully the other.
    I get it now, its the same old story, 1 man (regardless if you like his political affiliation) kept it together, after he died the more corrupt and selfish politicians tore it apart in a fight for power and control, sad for the people as usual
    You need to understand that outside of Serbia, many people weren't happy being part of Yugoslavia, and to them Tito was more like a villain.

    It's easy for serbs to say that it's a shame Yugoslavia broke apart, but ask any of the other 5 nations and you'll see it wasn't exacly a fairytale torn apart by 'selfish and corrupt politicians'.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Umchilli View Post
    You need to understand that outside of Serbia, many people weren't happy being part of Yugoslavia, and to them Tito was more like a villain.

    It's easy for serbs to say that it's a shame Yugoslavia broke apart, but ask any of the other 5 nations and you'll see it wasn't exacly a fairytale torn apart by 'selfish and corrupt politicians'.
    Ask ANY 55+ year old person from ex-yugoslavia if they had better life then or now and lets see what they tell you.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Igi View Post
    Ask ANY 55+ year old person from ex-yugoslavia if they had better life then or now and lets see what they tell you.
    Maybe if war didn't destroy so many industries, youth today wouldn't be living so shitty?

    It's called nostalgia. Not all of it was nostalgia though.

    My grandma worked in a bank in mid 70s which is considered 'golden age' by some and she told me how everyone who came to the bank for any kind of loan got it.
    Result of this was everyone feeling like they had a lot, but it caused hyper inflation and the Yugoslavia was under crushing debt for the remaining years of its existance.

    Imagine USA started doing massive handouts to everyone, but went bankrupt 15 years later. I'm sure people would talk how well they lived during this period, it would still be fake bliss stolen from future generations.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Igi View Post
    I'm from Serbia and its actually very easy to explain.
    After WW2 we had an amazing country called Yugoslavia (which in today's terms is Slovenia + Bosnia + Croatia + Serbia + Montenegro + Macedonia). Yugoslavia was ruled by marshal Tito. It was some sort of successful communism. EVERYONE had a job, EVERYONE had enough money to do anything. For example my parents would travel at least 5-6 times a year, now we do it once every 3 years. Then Tito died, politicians fought for power, country split up, we started fighting each other like idiots. If you ask who started the war everyone will say "we only defended ourselves". That's why we all hate each other now, and even today politicians use that hatred to steal as much money as possible. You know what they say, divide and conquer, if we fight each other we can't fight corrupted government.
    As if, you wish. I was born in Yugoslavia; and while I was too young to remember anything from that time, I do still remember the stories my parents told me. They didn't have enough money to do anything, by far not. Maybe those who benefited most from the corrupt system. But my dad had to gather 20 friends, they all had to throw money together and only then could they go all the way to Italy by bus and boat to get themselves the new Allstars sneakers. A week long travel just to get new shoes. Great country you've got there.

    Yugoslavia was only good in the eyes of those who knew how to exploit it and for those, who were uneducated and befitted from it naturally. It was a huge clusterfuck of gathered nations who wished for independence, but weren't allowed to voice that opinion; resulting in a completely unnecessary war. All could have been avoided if those who were in power, were a little bit less.... Milosevic. Plus, it would have helped if the common folk wasn't just all farmers and sheep hoarders who wished to remain "ethnically clean".

    And today... only people who are stuck up in the past would actually say that they "hate each other". Not a single person of my age is responsible for anything that was done by our parents and their parents. I don't hate a single Serb, Bosnian or any other person from a former Yugo country. But I guess hate is simply an easier emotion than compassion. We all lost in this war, we all got fucked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Igi View Post
    Ask ANY 55+ year old person from ex-yugoslavia if they had better life then or now and lets see what they tell you.
    Ask any 55 years old from any country the same question and they'll tell you that shit was better during their times. It's just an old fart's problem and the reason we have Brexit.
    Last edited by StayTuned; 2016-07-10 at 12:04 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    But then Slobodan Molosevic came and tried to kill them, so they started fighting for independence even after he fell. In the end they sort of got it, but not quite as many countries don't recognize them, yet it was for nothing, as Kosovo is a poor country too and most young people left.
    that's not how it happened. the war started with muslims terrorizing serb population, not with someone coming and trying to kill them just for fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    It's not "both sides committed war crimes", it's almost exclusively Serbs berserking in Bosnian War. It's not "Muslims stuck in middle", the Muslims aka Bosniaks were fighting against Serbs (and later Croats?) and Bosniak civilians were deliberately targeted by Serbs. It's the same shit in Kosova War.
    bullshit. muslims playing the victim card when they started all the shit. muslims were targeted as retaliation for what they did to the serb civilians

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    Now, some other interesting things about Yugoslavia though:
    Macedonia is falled FYROM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) because when it split from the rest of Yugoslavia and wanted to be called Macedonia Greece started to fear that they might afterwards claim the region of Macedonia from within Greece so they kept veto-ing the name of Macedonia wherever they could. This is why in some cases Macedonia is falled FYROM.
    Funny how Tito in all other places tried to put down Nationalism of the different groups, yet almost single handidly created the Slavic Macedonian identity. Essentially up to and including WW2 the people in that area were proud Bulgarians.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    that's not how it happened. the war started with muslims terrorizing serb population, not with someone coming and trying to kill them just for fun

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    bullshit. muslims playing the victim card when they started all the shit. muslims were targeted as retaliation for what they did to the serb civilians
    This Serb fella is the primary indication of what Serbs are capable of doing in the future, given the chance. This is why Serbs in Eastern Europe must be kept in check.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    This Serb fella is the primary indication of what Serbs are capable of doing in the future, given the chance. This is why Serbs in Eastern Europe must be kept in check.
    This Erdogan fella is the primary indication of what Turks are capable of doing in the future, given the chance. This is why Turks in Eastern Europe must be kept in check.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    This Erdogan fella is the primary indication of what Turks are capable of doing in the future, given the chance. This is why Turks in Eastern Europe must be kept in check.
    Someone is still butthurt

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    Someone is still butthurt
    Haha, keep believing that. :facepalm:

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Lei Shi View Post
    This Erdogan fella is the primary indication of what Turks are capable of doing in the future, given the chance. This is why Turks in Eastern Europe must be kept in check.
    not just erdogan and turks, muslims in general. they breed like rats and once they are the majority they start with terrorism. they are currently trying to proclaim they have the majority in bosnia so they can opress the others, you can expect shit to hit the fan again pretty soon

  15. #35
    Thanks for proving my point guys! Put a Serb, Croat and a Bosniak in a room and it won't end well.
    Funny thing is, 15-25 year old boys think they know history :/ u weren't even born when it all happened.

  16. #36
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    This Serb fella is the primary indication of what Serbs are capable of doing in the future, given the chance. This is why Serbs in Eastern Europe must be kept in check.
    No. He was a madman. Hitler was also a madman. and yes, both were supported by the army in part. But not all the population is guilty for their actions.
    Serbians are not some mass murderers. Some of them might be ultra-nationalistic and end up becoming mass murderers, but that's true for most countries for there's these madmen everywhere. Due to several circumstances, sometimes they end up getting to power.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    No. He was a madman. Hitler was also a madman. and yes, both were supported by the army in part. But not all the population is guilty for their actions.
    Serbians are not some mass murderers. Some of them might be ultra-nationalistic and end up becoming mass murderers, but that's true for most countries for there's these madmen everywhere. Due to several circumstances, sometimes they end up getting to power.
    I was talking about Burek. He just said he's a Serb and you may want to read his comments. Eastern Europe is highly nationalist and Serbs are WAY more nationalist, even for Eastern European standards. When the very first Serb you see is batshit crazy, and the next one and the next one I think it says quite a bit about your average Serb.
    Last edited by Kuntantee; 2016-07-10 at 06:20 PM.

  18. #38
    Tito was an iron-handed fellow, but he did understood very basic concepts, such to give even largely illusory concessions to other ethnic groups (the presidency of Yugoslavia, for instance) and especially not to rule Yugoslavia 2.0 (post WW2 one) as Yugoslavia 1.0 (post WW1) as ''Serbland''. You are quite correct to assume that life was better under Tito than under six different countries of minuscule size bitterly opposed to each other. But the destroyer of Yugoslavia is far less ''Bosniaks'' or ''Croats'' than Milosevic.


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    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    that's not how it happened. the war started with muslims terrorizing serb population, not with someone coming and trying to kill them just for fun

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    bullshit. muslims playing the victim card when they started all the shit. muslims were targeted as retaliation for what they did to the serb civilians

    Of course...bad muslim terrorists. They are so smart that they forced Milosevic to attack Croats in Croatia, to make things look like Milosevic was the attacker when he did exactly the same gig in Bosnia and Kosovo.
    Last edited by sarahtasher; 2016-07-11 at 01:37 PM.

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