Anything wrong with using a guild for gear?

[Tennis]

Let's say you just started back playing and your goal is to raid mythic.

However you don't have the gear. So you join a heroic guild which has been raiding heroics for a while and where they don't need much gear anymore. After a week or 2 you get your 4 piece and get to know the fights. Then you bail for a mythic guild.

Anything wrong with this?

[ReVnX]

Taking advantage of other people for your own benefit without any regard for them is usually considered morally wrong.

I would call you an asshole, others wouldn't even care... So I guess it depends on the viewer

[Deleted]

Let's say you just started back playing and your goal is to raid mythic.

However you don't have the gear. So you join a heroic guild which has been raiding heroics for a while and where they don't need much gear anymore. After a week or 2 you get your 4 piece and get to know the fights. Then you bail for a mythic guild.

Anything wrong with this?

In my eyes yes -

1 - This Heroic guild may have took you on because needing the class you raid with - you bail = leaves them in the shit.
2 - Damn right rude tbh - also a small chance the word will get about this dick joins guild takes gear then bails, which then in turn may = other guilds wont give you the time of day as they will base your experience of taking gear and guild hopping and just fuck you off also.

[Tennis]

In my eyes yes -

1 - This Heroic guild may have took you on because needing the class you raid with - you bail = leaves them in the shit.
2 - Damn right rude tbh - also a small chance the word will get about this dick joins guild takes gear then bails, which then in turn may = other guilds wont give you the time of day as they will base your experience of taking gear and guild hopping and just fuck you off also.

I don't see why. I've tried pugging and had very poor luck with gear.
If I give the guild 2 weeks top performance and then leave with gear, what's wrong with that?

[Tyranastus]

It depends on the circumstances behind your acceptance into the guild:
If they were recruiting to fill a permanent spot and that spot is the one you are currently in; yes, you leaving for a better guild is a dick move.
If you asked to join them and their raid team, and they said that they were just raiding for fun and just to optimise heroic gear on their raider, so come along for some gear if you want; no, it's not a dick move.
Essentially, if you gave them any indication of some form of ongoing guild and raid membership, or joined under false pretences, or will be leaving the guild that has helped to gear you in a poor state; you may in fact fall into one of the categories of what is wrong with organised raiding within current WoW. It sounds harsh, but it's just the truth. And honestly, if you have to ask the question, I am going to assume that your conscience knows all of this already.

[vindicatorx]

Anything wrong with this?

Isn't that what raiding is for the most part? You are providing your skill for gear and it would make sense that you stay as long as the arrangement is mutually beneficial right?

[darkphiba]

well, judging by your reply above, it seems you have already made your mind up, but most likley you have doubts about the morality of your choice, hence your reason for coming onto a forum and asking people their opinion on your actions.

I am in a guild that "certain types" have used for gear and then moved on without even saying goodbye, or thanks, or, well anything really, almost like they're scared of the backlash, but then there are guilds out there that activley support this behaviour and accept people only once they have "used" a guild in this fashion. It is far from helpful for the guild your leaving, though if you were up front about your intentions, i would consider that completley different and morally acceptable. you would probably get more understanding and respect. Honesty is such a difficult thing to come across these days.

[Tennis]

It depends on the circumstances behind your acceptance into the guild:
If they were recruiting to fill a permanent spot and that spot is the one you are currently in; yes, you leaving for a better guild is a dick move.
If you asked to join them and their raid team, and they said that they were just raiding for fun and just to optimise heroic gear on their raider, so come along for some gear if you want; no, it's not a dick move.
Essentially, if you gave them any indication of some form of ongoing guild and raid membership, or joined under false pretences, or will be leaving the guild that has helped to gear you in a poor state; you may in fact fall into one of the categories of what is wrong with organised raiding within current WoW. It sounds harsh, but it's just the truth. And honestly, if you have to ask the question, I am going to assume that your conscience knows all of this already.

Circumstances change. When you joined you needed gear and some experience in heroic. Once you need either you move on because the guild is no longer raiding at a level for which you are comfortable. Seems fine to me.

[Deleted]

you join a guild to learn the people and surport a commen goal. What i don´t want is it being used as a stepping stone for some place else.

But if you had an agreement then it might be fine but i'd hav been better if you grinded guld or made raids yourself and reserved items,

[Deja Thoris]

Isn't that what raiding is for the most part? You are providing your skill for gear and it would make sense that you stay as long as the arrangement is mutually beneficial right?

Not really. That guild is making an investment in you. They could have provided that gear to someone who stayed instead of repeatedly gearing up people who use them to climb the ladder.

In that respect its shady and the OP knows it.

[Raelbo]

I don't see why. I've tried pugging and had very poor luck with gear.
If I give the guild 2 weeks top performance and then leave with gear, what's wrong with that?

In language you might understand:

It's like getting into a sexual relationship with someone in order to take advantage of the trade-up principle: ie members of the opposite sex find someone more attractive if they're in a relationship. So basically you date someone, have fun sex with them and then dump them the moment a more attractive person shows interest in you. You've just used the other person.

Then try convincing the dumped ex that hey, she got a got deal of two weeks of awesome sex with you.

[Chuckadoodle]

This is why our guild does a mumble interview and checks guild history before we accept anyone as an initiate.

[Deleted]

It depends on wether you made your intentions clear in advance.
In my opinion it makes you a preety shitty person; yes, i judge people based on their actions.

With most self-respecting guilds you would shoot yourself in the knee by doing this.
Especially if it is not a cross-server/faction application and the leadership can contact the leadership of your previous guild with no barriers.

[Nahela]

If I give the guild 2 weeks top performance and then leave with gear, what's wrong with that?

And this is the attitude that will keep you out of any decent Mythic guild.

There's nothing wrong with stepping stones, but you should also make your intentions clear. If the guild has no plans to do Mythic, you should be upfront that you intend to. Is this going to make it harder to find a heroic guild? Slightly, but it also saves those heroic guilds a major headache and wasted time.

If you really see nothing wrong with specifically loot vacuuming with the intent of ditching and also simultaneously believe you're god's gift to raiding, you probably have a very short mythic raiding career ahead of you. I don't think I've ever seen a raider with that attitude that wasn't a complete bottom-feeder.

[Dracodraco]

I don't see why. I've tried pugging and had very poor luck with gear.
If I give the guild 2 weeks top performance and then leave with gear, what's wrong with that?

Considering you could just make your own pugs and reserve any gear you needed instead of abusing a random guild, it's still a dick move any way you spin it.
2 weeks top performance then leaving is still fucking them over bigtime - usually, a guild will recruit to fill a specific spot, and then stop recruitment of that class. If you stay for 2-4 weeks to gear up as say, a healer or a tank, they likely aren't attempting to recruit a tank or a healer in the meantime. This means that you are essentially robbing them of atleast a few weeks' worth of attempting to find a stable member. If you intend to leave after getting gear, make that known so that they can take precautions - EG, bottom of loot priority over their own members that *will* stick around, and still attempt to recruit someone for when you leave. Plenty of guilds are desperate enough to take such a deal to field numbers, especially with good performers - having someone for a while beats having nobody, as long as it has no negative impact.

[Veeks]

If your original intention was to gear up and bail, unless you were honest and up front about it, then you are in the wrong. Will the guild care? Who knows. Will you get negative comments on the server? Probably. Will you ultimately care? 100% up to you. It's a dick move for the most part. In it's most simplistic terms, you're using people. Plain and simple. You can get into a guild run with people who do it for alts and non main raiders and they would probably welcome you just due to your skill. Anyone who doesn't drag down the pugs I run is A-OK in my book. But try and join my main raid for gear and bail? That's someone who's going to get shat on every time you're seen in trade.

[Tyranastus]

Circumstances change. When you joined you needed gear and some experience in heroic. Once you need either you move on because the guild is no longer raiding at a level for which you are comfortable. Seems fine to me.

Did you make it known to them that you were there to gear up so that you could move on to Mythic raiding once you were able to? If you did not; it is a dick move. This isn't a difficult concept to understand.

And this time, I will prose my former statement as a question. . .

If you honestly feel that your conscience is clear, and you are not doing anything wrong by performing your aforementioned actions, why have you come onto the Mmo-champion forums asking if said actions are wrong?
You give the impression of someone who is feeling guilty for your actions/plans and you are here hoping for people to justify them, and alleviate your conscience. What were you hoping to achieve by posing the question to this community?

[Deleted]

I believe the right term for this kind of behavior is either Sociopath or simply Asshole.

If you honestly feel that your conscience is clear, and you are not doing anything wrong by performing your aforementioned actions, why have you come onto the Mmo-champion forums asking if said actions are wrong?
You give the impression of someone who is feeling guilty for your actions/plans and you are here hoping for people to justify them, and alleviate your conscience. What were you hoping to achieve by posing the question to this community?

It's Tennisace.
One of the forum trolls.
He puts up threads containing questions with an obvious answer, preferably one that may rile people up.

[Cheze]

at this point in the expansion heroic gear likely won't get you into a 'mythic guild' unless they're totally desperate for members. And a history of frequently hopping from guild to guild is a big turnoff.

that said, raiding for a few weeks with some guild, getting some gear and then moving on isn't some great moral failing. Everybody who shows up to the raid to kill things has earned the gear they get. If they're funneling things to you for some reason it'd be kinda low not to tell them your plans, but if you're just getting your share of the loot your obligation to them has been met.

[Ssateneth]

I don't see why. I've tried pugging and had very poor luck with gear.
If I give the guild 2 weeks top performance and then leave with gear, what's wrong with that?

From the guild standpoint, by giving you gear, they are investing in you (think of a stocks in a stock market that the guild buys shares of, then its value goes up when you get gear). Then you leave. Now the investment is gone. They wasted all that time gearing you up.

If the heroic guild genuinely doesn't care, then good on you. But most will call you a dick for grabbing and dashing. Most mythic guilds require mythic gear and mythic XP by now anyways, so you'll be hard-pressed to get in unless you have connections.