Why aren't you vegan yet?

[Daerdras]

You can have that as a vegan too! You may need to take vitamin supplements though.

How is this at all the same thing? Having to use a manufactured pill to supplement the nutrients you're missing out on by limiting the variety of your diet is in no way a plausible solution. We eat animals because, in the end, we want to survive and animals are made from a very important chemical that every fleshy creature needs, Amino Acids. Don't tell me that just because I can get the same thing from a pill, I should stop eating something that gives it to me naturally, especially if you're only real reason for your argument is that some pig somewhere has a cute face.

[Keuric]

Wow.

About 10 pages of fairly civil exchanges, followed by 60 pages of name-calling, quoting, selective reading/responses, all of it based on a specious premise.

I'm not a vegan because I'm a grown-up who can make his own decisions and no amount of moralizing, guilt or threats is going to force me to shift my opinion, except into a further extreme. My brother has been a vegan for 10 years. Now how you'll know? He'll tell you. So will his wife. The minute you meet them. As has been my experience with nearly all vegans/vegetarians. Because they tend to be superior, which just makes me want to eat meat to spite them. I have one friend who it does not come up with instantly, who doesn't push her vegetarianism in every conversation.

I've got no problem with a vegan who wants to be a vegan. That's great. You've made a choice. But you're not better, you're not worse--you're capable of making a decision, you don't get a pat on the back for it. Enjoy not being able to eat 80% of the food on menus. I'm not more proud of a vegan than I am some guy who wants to eat a steak the size of his head (except it might be fun to watch him almost pass out).

Let's turn this topic name around - "Why are you still a vegan?"

Kind of insulting, isn't it? The premise of the topic suggests that vegans are, by nature, wrong, and that the omnivores, by nature, are right. The subject used suggests a superiority complex where it is most assuredly not deserved for a life choice that only adds limits to an otherwise wide-open diet.

In fact, OP, if you had chosen a less combative title, I wonder, would there be nearly as much of the pissing contest going on here?

Neither side here is better. It's a matter of personal choice. Vegans think the omnivores are wrong on a moral level and the omnivores think the vegans are a bunch of superior, moralizing proselytizers. Guess what? Eating meat does contribute to pollution. Guess what? So do farts. Are either at a significant level? No, fossil fuels are causing the bulk of it.

Put down your pitchforks. And team up on the pescatarians. They can't even commit.

[Ielenia]

We have to grow food to feed livestock, yes?

Not really. A great part of what livestock eats come from sub-products and leftovers from crops designed to feed people.

[Xirrohon]

Still love how Vegans avoid any questions, and just shout "BE VEGAN"

let me try again:

I have an allergy for:

Peanuts
Fish
Lactose
Hard Fruit (Fruit with a hard core, Apple, Peach etc etc) also known as Drupes


Sadly, this means that a lot of "vegan" options are not available for people with such allergies. And what do your "vegan scientists" say? (And please, you know those are a sham); "Those allergies are forced upon you by the medical industry, they are not real".

So please, do tell me what I can eat.

There are plenty of things you can eat. Vegan/Plant Based doesnt just mean that you eat nothing but Nuts and Fruit. Pretty much what I eat everyday doesnt contain any of the things you are allergic to.

For instance this is what I ate yesterday:

Breakfast:
Oatmeal w Blueberries
Whole wheat toast and strawberry spread

Snack:
Pretzels

Lunch:
Pasta w tomato sauce, peppers, onions, garbanzo beans

Dinner:
Bean enchiladas

Post workout smoothie:
2 bananas, spinach


Heres a quick breakdown nutritionally:

Cals - 2037
Carbs - 415
Fat - 25
Protein - 70
Fiber - 69
Sodium - 1620

[tankbug]

- We have enough food, we just can't distribute it efficiently. But if a local population is starving because Big Ag has "stolen" all their lands to make cheap beef for the foreign market, that's wrong. We also destroy a lot of produce, and our household is wasting it, because we're terrified of expiration dates and we buy more than we consume (like when things are on sale). My point is that on a global scale, people aren't starving because we like to eat meat.

- Vegan diets aren't healthier. Sure, there are lots of calories in a big piece of meat, but it's also very nutritious and fills you up. Moderation is the key to keep the pounds off. You become vegan because you object to the breeding and captivity of animals, not because animal products are unhealthy. Want to live more healthy? Reduce sugar intake and chose a tasty salad instead of bread/pasta/rice more often. Avoid processed foods, and use more spices for taste. Spicy food is a good way of losing weight, because you have to eat a little slower and make you feel fuller.

- The suffering of animals is a terrible thing. No animal should be tortured by having no space to move around, not getting a proper diet, getting GMO'ed into meat beast with little mobility, getting beaten or maimed or kept in unclean places with lots of disease and pain. BUT...it doesn't have to be that way. There are many examples of industrial farming where this happens, and that needs to be regulated and punished severely. But thankfully, that's not the norm. Animals can also live happy lives in captivity, and have less stress and pain than growing up in the wilderness.

[Beefsquatch]

I'm not vegan because I like meat.

[Fadeslol]

Only thing i gotta say is if you eat Meat, try to eat 100% grass-fed or if you drink Milk, try finding Raw Milk.

[Deleted]

Not really true tankbug, a piece of meat contains very few calories actually ! It's usually what we eat with the meat that is a bigger problem, like sauce and things like that.

[Fadeslol]

Not really true tankbug, a piece of meat contains very few calories actually ! It's usually what we eat with the meat that is a bigger problem, like sauce and things like that.

If i'm right, but i could be wrong. I remember reading that 100% grass fed red meat is better than GMO Chicken.

[Deleted]

Not really true tankbug, a piece of meat contains very few calories actually ! It's usually what we eat with the meat that is a bigger problem, like sauce and things like that.

It really depends on the type of meat.

[Snuffleupagus]

Heres a quick breakdown nutritionally:

Cals - 2037
Carbs - 415
Fat - 25
Protein - 70
Fiber - 69
Sodium - 1620

There are a lot of nutrients you've conveniently left off that list there. Human nutrition is more than macro level intake.

Edit: As I stated earlier. We require certain nutrients and other elements of a balanced diet in such quantities that it is not feasible for everyone in the world to obtain these via vegan/vegetarian diets.

- B12 (plants containing B12 also have cobamides that block intake and absorption)
- Iron (poorly absorbed from plants, also in small quantities)
- Some amino acids
- Carnosine
- DHA (plant based DHA is very poorly absorbed, since the body converts it from ALA in small quantities)
- Creatine
- Vitamin A (carrots don't give you this, carotene is a precursor to Vit. A)
- Vitamin K2 (without this, Calcium is useless) unless you eat "natto", which quite frankly is disgusting

[Xirrohon]

There are a lot of nutrients you've conveniently left off that list there. Human nutrition is more than macro level intake.

I dont get your point? Of course I can give a complete nutritional breakdown, my response was to the person asking what can they eat. Most poeple are worried about hitting their macros and thats why I posted those numbers. I could goto Cronometer and post a screen shot but I didnt feel it was necessary. Are you worried for me? Dont be. I assure you that I am getting all of the nutrition I need.

[Snuffleupagus]

I dont get your point? Of course I can give a complete nutritional breakdown, my response was to the person asking what can they eat. Most poeple are worried about hitting their macros and thats why I posted those numbers. I could goto Cronometer and post a screen shot but I didnt feel it was necessary. Are you worried for me? Dont be. I assure you that I am getting all of the nutrition I need.

I don't give a hoot about you to be frank. You have every right to eat what you eat and I will defend your right to do so, unless you are harming others.

I simply do not like seeing people not being given all the facts.

- - - Updated - - -

Only thing i gotta say is if you eat Meat, try to eat 100% grass-fed or if you drink Milk, try finding Raw Milk.

Grass fed meat - hell yes.

Raw milk? Just fucking don't. If you honestly think the risks are worth it, you're on par with anti-vax nut jobs.

[Xirrohon]

I don't give a hoot about you to be frank. You have every right to eat what you eat and I will defend your right to do so, unless you are harming others.

I simply do not like seeing people not being given all the facts.

- - - Updated - - -

Im sorry but your understanding of what I eat is pretty bad. I will give you the benefit of doubt as I didnt include every single thing that is contained in what I eat. I make all of my own meals.

For instance my oatmeal:

Steel cut oats
Chia seeds
Flax seeds
Almond milk
Maple syrup

Now with those things included my nutrition profile changes a lot. Also, I take a 10mg B12 daily supplement. Keep assuming, I am sure that my understanding of nutrition is better than 99% of the people posting here. I also, have been watching what I eat in scrutiny to ensure that I get all of my nutrients for years.

[Eazy]

Breakfast:
Oatmeal w Blueberries
Whole wheat toast and strawberry spread

Snack:
Pretzels

Lunch:
Pasta w tomato sauce, peppers, onions, garbanzo beans

Dinner:
Bean enchiladas

Post workout smoothie:
2 bananas, spinach


Heres a quick breakdown nutritionally:

Cals - 2037
Carbs - 415
Fat - 25
Protein - 70
Fiber - 69
Sodium - 1620

Not sure about the guy you're referring to, but I'm not only eating to survive, I want to enjoy it, I like the taste.
Anyway, still - your diet wouldn't be sufficient enough for me. It cointains very small amount of protein and plenty of carbs (%). And also this:

- B12 (plants containing B12 also have cobamides that block intake and absorption)
- Iron (poorly absorbed from plants, also in small quantities)
- Some amino acids
- Carnosine
- DHA (plant based DHA is very poorly absorbed, since the body converts it from ALA in small quantities)
- Creatine
- Vitamin A (carrots don't give you this, carotene is a precursor to Vit. A)
- Vitamin K2 (without this, Calcium is useless) unless you eat "natto", which quite frankly is disgusting

[Fadeslol]

I don't give a hoot about you to be frank. You have every right to eat what you eat and I will defend your right to do so, unless you are harming others.

I simply do not like seeing people not being given all the facts.

- - - Updated - - -



Grass fed meat - hell yes.

Raw milk? Just fucking don't. If you honestly think the risks are worth it, you're on par with anti-vax nut jobs.

Just because the Govt said it's bad, doesn't mean it is. I love raw milk. Have you ever tried goat milk?

Also, i wouldn't take a Vax even if you paid me. I don't even take a Flu Shot.

[MrSaggins]

I could care less about the feelings of non-self aware livestock, but I don't particularly love meat either. The burden raising beef puts on our water supply (particularly my state, NC) is worrisome though. If the civilized world went vegan I'd have no issue assimilating; I'll eat anything if it's tasty and safe. I would like to be able to eat the fresh fish and deer I kill though because it's wasteful otherwise (and yes, hunting is necessary because we've removed natural predators from the eco-system and if there aren't humans who'll step up and keep populations in check they'll overrun what little bit of nature we've left them and compromise their own sustainability). Just eat what you kill.

[Xirrohon]

Not sure about the guy you're referring to, but I'm not only eating to survive, I want to enjoy it, I like the taste.
Anyway, still - your diet wouldn't be sufficient enough for me. It cointains very small amount of protein and plenty of carbs (%). And also this:

A small amount of protein? Im sorry but where do you get your information as to how much protein you need? I am above the RDA. Here is what I use for my nutritional guidelines:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/

Here is the RDA for protein from their site:

"In the United States, the recommended daily allowance of protein is 46 grams per day for women over 19 years of age, and 56 grams per day for men over 19 years of age"

This is actually a little bit higher than what the WHO recommends. I ensure that I always get at least 60 grams of protein, most days I eat more. Also, I could show a complete nutritional breakdown of what I eat on a daily basis, it will show that I am not deficient in any nutireints but I dont see a need to make a post that in-depth.

[Lord Berserker]

A small amount of protein? Im sorry but where do you get your information as to how much protein you need? I am above the RDA. Here is what I use for my nutritional guidelines:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/

Here is the RDA for protein from their site:

"In the United States, the recommended daily allowance of protein is 46 grams per day for women over 19 years of age, and 56 grams per day for men over 19 years of age"

This is actually a little bit higher than what the WHO recommends. I ensure that I always get at least 60 grams of protein, most days I eat more. Also, I could show a complete nutritional breakdown of what I eat on a daily basis, it will show that I am not deficient in any nutireints but I dont see a need to make a post that in-depth.

The point here is we can crunch the numbers all we need.

Vegans need to eat more shit, eat different shit and half the time need supplements while normal people can just eat chicken.

[Xirrohon]

The point here is we can crunch the numbers all we need.

Vegans need to eat more shit, eat different shit and half the time need supplements while normal people can just eat chicken.

I gave you a daily breakdown of what I eat, how is that more than what a normal person eats?

And thats a huge problem with people thinking they can just "eat chicken". One of the points in my post is that pretty much nobody knows what they eat unless they are tracking it. I know that many people that practice plant based diets track everything to ensure that they are not nutrient deficient, something the average person does not do. You say need supplements, the only thing that I take is a dailly 10mg dose of B12. Do you understand how small 10mg is? I doubt you do.

Most of the posts in here are nothing but Bro Science.

I can pretty much guarantee that most of you do not even come close to getting the RDA of fiber.