Did Poland and Romania destroy the EU?

[Mehrunes]

There are no mechanisms to kick a country out and such mechanism would require an update of the treaties, which can be vetoed by a single country and as such won't happen anyway.

[Deleted]

It's no secret that immigration has become a big issue these days and uncontrolled movement of people from different cultures is probably the biggest barrier against European unity.
I'm sure countries like Sweden or the UK would be ok with free movement if it were only from Northern/Western EU countries because they come from similar social/economic backgrounds.

SO I have to ask, would the EU be more unified if large, poorer countries like Poland and Romania were to be kicked out?

You are mistaken. The real problem in the EU are all the countries and all the people who oppose tighter border control with cultures and religions that don't belong in the 21st century. They, and no one else, are to blame. I don't care how many there are; those countries are still wrong, and those people are still idiots. Every last one of them.

[Deleted]

imho the eu was too fast into taking those countries on board and not because a stupid cultural reason but because of their economic parameters were too low, desperate workers ready to accept any shitty job for a really low salary have pushed down the job market (in italy for example construction workers are almost all from romania cuz they work way more for less usually off the book and without any protection); it also opened the door for factories to be moved in those country were the work laws, taxation, and level of salaries are way less restrictive.
It basically was a win win situation for the riches and politicians and a lose lose for everyone else.

I agree with you here. We kind of rushed into it led maybe by the positive economy outlook of the time.

[Deleted]

It's no secret that immigration has become a big issue these days and uncontrolled movement of people from different cultures is probably the biggest barrier against European unity.
I'm sure countries like Sweden or the UK would be ok with free movement if it were only from Northern/Western EU countries because they come from similar social/economic backgrounds.

SO I have to ask, would the EU be more unified if large, poorer countries like Poland and Romania were to be kicked out?

Dude... you don't even have any idea what you're talking about.

UK was first and foremost wanting free movement because they actually wanted polish workers to come to them when we joined EU. Let that sink in and think about it again.

Your post shows me you don't even know what the purpose of EU is about.

[Deleted]

I'm sure that 150k+ or so Romanians in Uk or 30k+- or so in Sweden destroy Eu economy, i say throw them out, im sure the Uk citizen will fight for jobs like, plumbers, nurse, restaurant workers, shitty work at farms etc, then you have the doctors, engineers or people that work in IT, throw all out

hypocrites

[Nights]

Seriously i wonder when when exactly all this racist and xenophopic threads become allowed here on mmo? If any of you have any doubts if Brits are racist ask any foreigner ppl not even ones who live there cus they got use to it usually just ones who went to uk to visit someone.

[Mekh]

I often heard from the media that the jobs the polish people take are jobs that the British citizens don't want to do anyway - but maybe it's because you can't properly sustain yourself or your family with those jobs. Yet there was/is no pressure to change that - because the jobs can be simply filled with EU citizens.

I'm all for a living minimum wage, but: How do Polish people in GB sustain themselves if Brits can't? Not like they can go home to Poland every evening and live and shop there instead.

[sarahtasher]

Even the usual suspects who bemoans at dangerous terrorists (read, Muslim migrants) will find (and find) a tad racist to be hostile to Poles...

[Deleted]

If the Poles and Romanians can crowd out your workers back home, the problem is not freedom of movement, the problem is your spineless government not protecting local workers by setting up a better minimum wage and enforcing contributions and severe fines for unregistered workers because it is sucking on the companies' tits.

What unregistered workers? They are free to work there simply for being EU citizens and they have every right to do that.

Anyways doesn't matter. UK kicked itself out of EU anyways. I've to say I feel sorry for all those who wanted to remain and lost because of misinformed, xenophobic people voting.

[Sarethion]

Just because they're white and christian doesn't mean we have anything else in common.

Such a disgusting, xenophobic elitism...

Let me ask you something - have you ever even tried to visit Poland/Romania? Or do you base your opinion entirely on a bunch of immigrants?
Because I have been in England numerous times and I live in Poland - and you know what? Yes, some things about the people in our countries are different, but the same could be said about ANY 2 countries. Every nation has its "thing" (or "things") and yes, it's completely normal.

But, if you bothered to actually come to Poland, I bet you'd notice that it is not some third world country with primitive people, but a country just like your own with people very much like your own. The only major difference is that your country is a bit more developed and has minor cultural differences. And I can assure you, if you came in with an open mind instead that xenophobic attitude of yours, you'd be suprised at how much Poland/England and Polish/English folks have in common. Not just the skin color or religion.

You are against immigration? Fine, you have the right to. I can understand where you're coming from, though I could probably disagree on a lot of your arguments.
But please, for the love of all that is holy, stop acting like some sort of elitist jerk who treats Polish or any other EE people as second grade human beings. We aren't.

[sarahtasher]

Once again, for all the thinly veiled xenophobic contempt toward African, Muslim or Asian countries, where everyone are ''savages'', that of course extend to South American countries (where being christians still make Mexicans ''dangerous''), there are limits. If you don't consider Poland a western country, you are beyond the pale (zing!)

[Sarethion]

I'm all for a living minimum wage, but: How do Polish people in GB sustain themselves if Brits can't? Not like they can go home to Poland every evening and live and shop there instead.

They don't spend a shit ton of money on tea for instance
Jokes aside, immigrants often just agree on much lower life standards than the local populace and are more inclined to work a few jobs, thus they can sustain themselves with less money/free time.

[Deleted]

I'm all for a living minimum wage, but: How do Polish people in GB sustain themselves if Brits can't? Not like they can go home to Poland every evening and live and shop there instead.

Share apartments, no family, live cheaply mostly.

- - - Updated - - -

Amazingly enough, eastern Europeans don't like being painted with the same brush, yet some of them are actually proud to apply the same treatment to other groups.
Years behind, simply.

[Sarethion]

Amazingly enough, eastern Europeans don't like being painted with the same brush, yet some of them are actually proud to apply the same treatment to other groups.

But... can't the same be said about pretty much anyone?

[Mekh]

They don't spend a shit ton of money on tea for instance
Jokes aside, immigrants often just agree on much lower life standards than the local populace and are more inclined to work a few jobs, thus they can sustain themselves with less money/free time.

I guess, but that's nothing British people couldn't do. So all the "DEY TUK AWR JERBS!"-whining doesn't really apply.

Yes, the job might have gone to somebody equally qualified willing to work for less, but if a Pole can live from it, so could a Brit, if he was willing to work for it.

And again: Of course there needs to be a minimum wage to prevent things from getting ridiculous.

[Grimbold21]

I thought Poland was a strong economy

[Sarethion]

Yes, the job might have gone to somebody equally qualified willing to work for less, but if a Pole can live from it, so could a Brit, if he was willing to work for it.

Absolutely. It's not a matter of Brits not being able to make a living out of the same amount of money, but simply not wanting to do so.
And I totally agree that some sort of minimum wage should be introduced to equalize the playing field.

[Malacrass]

I'm all for a living minimum wage, but: How do Polish people in GB sustain themselves if Brits can't? Not like they can go home to Poland every evening and live and shop there instead.

For most low educated Polish workers the alternative is unemployment in Poland, or if employed a lifestyle that is still much worse than doing a "shitty" job in the UK. The social system is incredibly poor there compared to the west of the EU. Don't expect much welfare (I think it's 125 Euro a month, and only under certain circumstances for half a year). And prices for general goods aren't that low either to make up for it.

And yeah, maybe "sustain" isn't the right word. Sure no one dies working in a low-pay job in the UK, but it's not what I would consider living. When you can't afford good education for your children, can't go on a vacation once every few years, can't visit restaurants or bars because the spare money just isn't there. The list goes on.

Polish workers accept it because their alternative is even worse. A citizen of he UK can at least rely on welfare, and while I personally could never do it, I understand why some would rather just take welfare and hope for a better opportunity coming their way. Which brings us back to the minimum wage - if it would be high enough there would be an incentive to do those unwanted jobs. But if it's barely above welfare level? Yeah.

[Sting]

There's a problem with immigrants from those countries working (often unregistered) for less than standard market norms. It's not the immigrant's fault, the government needs to come down hard on companies that are employing people unlawfully.

The real problem with the EU is that the southern nations have a bad economy, prime example Greece, with Portugal, Italy and Spain not far behind. They're bottomless pits where the brussel bureaucrats in charge just keep pouring money into.

[Deleted]

I'm sure that 150k+ or so Romanians in Uk or 30k+- or so in Sweden destroy Eu economy, i say throw them out, im sure the Uk citizen will fight for jobs like, plumbers, nurse, restaurant workers, shitty work at farms etc, then you have the doctors, engineers or people that work in IT, throw all out

hypocrites

Dude u need a education to work as a plumber electrician tinsmith etc here in Sweden unless u work for a shady company.

And they earn good money enough to buy apartment/house in middle/upper middle class areas and it damn pricy to buy a house/apartment here.

Many even live in rich areas cus they invested in a home long ago and keept uppgrading