Encountered a trapped grasshopper on the bus

[Skayth]

Take home, wash it, and throw it on the skillet. Spice it up with some seasoning, and then pop it in your mouth. Chew, then swallow.

or you could do the kindest thing ever. Step on it,in one swift move. More than likely, its going to be dinner to something else, if it gets off the bus, or its going to get damaged/killed by something else, albeit slowly or fast.

[Sorshen]

So... is this thread about the grasshopper's emotional pain or Tennisace's emotional pain?

[Themius]

I quote it in my prior post if you don't feel like clicking and want to read it.

http://reducing-suffering.org/do-bugs-feel-pain/

Okay um no that just sounds way off, like for instance in fish they find the same receptors however they don't have the rest of what's needed to actually translate that into pain. Pain you can feel without actually being in physical pain, pain itself is pretty emotional.

[Deleted]

Should've eaten it. Absorb it's power and let it continue living through you.

[Sovich]

Compassion for insects (and lesser creatures)has always be a divisive topic. It's understandable from both angles.

Why feel something for an insect? Why waste even a momentary bit of emotion on such a lowly form of life. By human standards it's incredibly unsophisticated, while having similar goals to human (reproduction), it is out of our mental capabilities. They're also many and everywhere, we barely (or not at all) have enough emotional capacity to feel similarly to every human we hear die everyday.
But you're also anthropomorphizing the animal. Suffering is not comprehended for an insect, or if they do, nowhere near to the depth of us. That is the greatest, albeit beautiful, error that humans have when interacting with other species. We foolishly see ourselves within and apply our emotional depth to other animals and even OBJECTS.

But what when if we encounter our inevitable superior? Be it advanced A.I. or an alien, we will be wishing and hoping they possess a similar trait.

[sheggaro]

Get therapy.

[Themius]

Compassion for insects (and lesser creatures)has always be a divisive topic. It's understandable from both angles.

Why feel something for an insect? Why waste even a momentary bit of emotion on such a lowly form of life. By human standards it's incredibly unsophisticated, while having similar goals to human (reproduction), it is out of our mental capabilities. They're also many and everywhere, we barely (or not at all) have enough emotional capacity to feel similarly to every human we hear die everyday.
But you're also anthropomorphizing the animal. Suffering is not comprehended for an insect, or if they do, nowhere near to the depth of us. That is the greatest, albeit beautiful, error that humans have when interacting with other species. We foolishly see ourselves within and apply our emotional depth to other animals and even OBJECTS.

But what when if we encounter our inevitable superior? Be it advanced A.I. or an alien, we will be wishing and hoping they possess a similar trait.

We understand the suffering of many animals... cats, dogs, dolphin, elephants. In these cases the way we view suffering indeed makes sense for these animals.

[Deleted]

Made me really sad.

It kept smashing it's head into the glass trying to get out. I could have tried to open the windows and let it out but I fear it would bot have survived as the road was quite busy.

What would you do in such a situation? I really wished I could have helped it. It must have been so traumatized and confused not being able to understand why something was blocking it from escaping.

Insects don't have emotions, they just have instincts.

[Khadgar]

Insects don't have emotions, they just have instincts.

I disagree

[GennGreymane]

Our lord and savior Tenn is back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Deleted]

I disagree

Butterfree isn't an insect, as evidenced by lack of legs. Also note that Pokemon followed a different evolutionary path to an insect, which could have lead them along the same track as reptilian > mammalian brain development

[Deletedaccount1]

I had a pet grasshopper when I was kid and I would feed it crickets that I found. It would grab them and rip them apart from the middle before eating them. Kind of like how you might cut up a piece of steak before you eat it. It would cut them apart so fast and powerfully that the blood would stain the sides of the cage I kept it in. Pretty cool.

[GennGreymane]

@supertony51

YOU DONT HAVE TO BE TENN ANYMORE! Tenn is back!

[Caerule]

It's an almost unique property of humans to feel empathy for creatures that are unlike ourselves. This ability has helped us do amazing things, like tame wolves into our faithful companion dogs. Of course, it's an ability that has an off-switch. Or we couldn't then use those dogs to hunt deer to feed us. A successful hunt, the death of a creature to sustain ourselves, has to be a pleasure as well. Humans embody this contradiction. The ability to take pleasure both in a creature's well-being, and its death.

It's your personality to decide when you feel empathy, possibly to the point of emotional distress to yourself. Or when you turn it off if you are able. The opening poster is one not tending to do so. I am often the same. In that case, the right response is to try and act. Bioethics teaches us that morality is the pursuit of reducing suffering. The grasshopper's wellbeing was compromised. It's successful rescue could have ended its suffering and been satisfying. Arguably, its death could also have prevented more long-term suffering, and been an acceptable solution for many.

There's also human suffering to consider. The opening poster suffered emotional distress because of the creature's fate. A human's suffering, according to bioethics, should matter more to us (even if this is the internet). The rescue of the grasshopper would have been the right call therefore. Though an argument could be made for the grasshopper's death, considering its presence would be likely to cause discomfort to more humans during the day.

It's a difficult situation. For example, if I have a fly in my house, I try to grab it and remove it alive. In fact, I have just done so. I am sure the opening poster would do the same. However, if every day there were 5 new flies in my house, that situation would probably come to change to one where I turn off empathy, and destroy them. I wouldn't like to, overall. But thanks to being human, I can do so without emotional distress, once the empathy is outweighed.

[Wilfire]

Lots of Orsons Lannisters in this thread :/

[Fargus]

Proving a negative? Is that what you're asking?

I'm sorry, but you'd have to be able to prove a positive to have an argument. So the burden of evidence is on your shoulder in this case.

I simply feel like animals with such small brain capacity and reasoning skills must not have the cognitive systems necessary to be told or made aware about the pain in their bodies, even if they could feel it.

I'm not the one making any claims here, so the onus is not on me.

I simply feel

So it's not based on any kind of scientific merit, only your "feels". We're done here.

[Caerule]

I had a pet grasshopper when I was kid and I would feed it crickets that I found. It would grab them and rip them apart from the middle before eating them. Kind of like how you might cut up a piece of steak before you eat it. It would cut them apart so fast and powerfully that the blood would stain the sides of the cage I kept it in. Pretty cool.

Most grasshoppers are herbivorous, eating only plants, with a preference for grasses. Was this some sort of praying mantis?

[Deletedaccount1]

Most grasshoppers are herbivorous, eating only plants, with a preference for grasses. Was this some sort of praying mantis?

Oh shit that is what I meant. I fed grasshoppers to my pray mantis.

[Fargus]

Um no... they can't "still feel pain" that's kind of why it doesn't matter.

You don't know that, neither does the scientific world. It's inconclusive at best.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm highly educated and intelligent. My feels are worth a lot in scientific argumentation. :P

The onus definitely isn't on me dude. If something needs to be proven it's that insects can feel pain, which can't be proven.

Yes, how impressive. But really, I don't give a shit if you like the sound of your own trumpet. Your "feels" is still an opinion, nothing more.

You stated that understanding what pain is being a prerequisite to feeling pain. That doesn't sound like a particularly intelligent thing to say.

The onus can't be shifted on me because I have only given a opinion (I didn't state insects feel pain as a fact), and have already said that this is something open ended so we do not know for sure.

You can't ask me to prove a negative. Why are you talking about scientific merit when you don't even understand the basics of rationality?

Then don't make absolute claims, because they're generally bullshit. Whether insects feel pain or not is still an open question and inconclusive, something for further study:

The question of pain in invertebrates will be extremely difficult to resolve--if, indeed, it is resolvable. In the meantime, perhaps it can be agreed that it is most appropriate to concentrate efforts on maintaining and improving the general well-being of invertebrates used in research, that is, to ensure that these animals are kept in the best and most appropriate conditions during their lives in the laboratory; given the benefit of the doubt in procedures which have the potential to cause pain and distress; and, when the time comes, killed in the most humane manner possible.

This paper gives them the benefit of the doubt. Sorry, I don't think your "feeling" is all too credible, especially against people who actually do research in this field for a living. You say you're "highly educated", but are you an entomologist? What are your qualifications to suggest that you are credible in this topic? You're a random person on a gaming forum, for all I know you don't even have a university degree. Trying to impress me with how smart you are isn't really a good look. In fact, it makes you look pretentious and annoying.

They have even used Drosphila to study the genetics of pain.

Want me to prove at the same time God doesn't exist either?

How are these even comparable? Proving a deity would be impossible - whether insects feel pain or not is something that can be actually studied and experimented on.

[Fargus]

Because you're asking me to prove a negative...

The only point you have made so far is that "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".

Then don't pretend an opinion is a fact.

And even /if/ insects could feel pain. Who gives a fuck?

Lol, now we truly know your real reason why you posted that nonsense earlier. Y'know, a lot of people use that very same reasoning to be cruel to other animals, including us. Makes you sound like a sociopath, really.

Essentially, your argument is "I don't think they feel pain and won't give them the benefit of the doubt because I don't give a shit". You could have said that earlier and saved us the time.