Why Free College is Bad Idea

[Acidbaron]

Yes? They want people the most educated and dedicated for the job role, why would they ever care about the dime a dozen graduates when they can get someone with another level of expertise.

You seem to think STEM degrees jobs are "Low level academic jobs" as is, when you already need tons of effort to get the decent paying STEM jobs. All this will do is make the degree itself worthless.

False, this is what happens here if you apply for a job you are overqualified for. You do not get hired if there are more suitable applicants. The reason for this is the higher your degree the higher your entry level wage. If a Bachelor is qualified a Master holding degree will not be hired. The most educated person is not always the right person for the job, since as a company you want to keep those people put someone in a position they overqualify for and they won't stick around.

If you need a college degree in the US to get about any decent job the problem is not access to colleges the problem is that your high school system, your mandatory education simply put is bad. Overhaul the highschool system and raise the quality there and you won't have everyone needing to go to college to make a decent wage.

The whole rarity argument is nonsense, since countries like the whole of europe have as good as free colleges or heavily subsidized and still not everyone goes to college and make more than an enough decent living. But they were prepared in High school and we have trade schools for those ages.

[caervek]

We have a similar problem in the UK at the moment. We made it far too easy for anyone who wanted to attend university/college to do so, and do a degree in whatever irrelevant subject takes their fancy. So we are now saturated with people who have pretty useless degrees, can't wire a plug and can't change a sink tap. Or even worse, people who failed their degree and have no useful skills or knowledge.

[ItachiZaku]

I think many people go to college with a purpose. They know they are paying for it and so they try harder. There is a penalty for failure. If it was free, more people would be going and there would be more failure and more less qualified people (as in, they graduate but don't really care about what they are doing).

I know if it were free, I'd more than likely go back and study something that I've wanted to do but didn't really think I'd want to spend the money on - as in working full time, having the patience to spend more time to graduate and money over that long stretch.

[Deleted]

It's not a level playing field. Just like previously a high school diploma wasn't really needed for many jobs, then one was needed, now a bachelors is pretty much needed for most good paying jobs and it will be pretty much required for all jobs if college was free and then it would be a masters that all employers would want. So no, cry moar about not being able to figure out how to afford college. It would not be a level playing field. It would make the degree equal to a high school diploma and probably cause most colleges to lower standards in classes just like high schools did.

Just because it's free doesn't mean everyone will do it. If you just raised the standard of entry, this imaginary issue goes away.

[chrisfover87]

Free college is a bad idea because it is too expensive for the government and the tax payers.

[Yvaelle]

Here is an economics professor arguing against education in case you wanted a more "credible" (appeal to authority) source.

Bryan is kind of a running joke in economics. He'll make a case for whatever you pay him to say (currently he is purchased by the Koch brothers).

Here he is arguing against teaching people history (to single out an example) - because it's not relevant to them tilling fields or turning wrenches.

Are you honestly defending that position? You don't think people should be taught history?

[Forogil]

The solution is simple. You make "college" hard enough so that only 10-20% pass without failing a year.

That would not be good. If >80% fail "college" you spend most of the time teaching people that don't get the education - that's inefficient use of teacher-time - and you should strive for something better.

The sensible solution in that situation is to have entrance requirement so that only about 20% of the applicants are admitted; and hopefully the overwhelming majority will then successfully complete the education (constructing such a test might be difficult - but at least something to aim for). That way the teaching can focus on students that are likely to pass, and actually give them a good education. The other 80% can then study something else, or work in jobs that don't require the extra degree.

It could also be that >80% fail because the teachers are really bad, or the students don't study - that would require different solutions.

[Yvaelle]

The solution is simple. You make "college" hard enough so that only 10-20% pass without failing a year.

Bell curving education doesn't make sense because it is not a mutually exclusive experience - a keener knowing 'the most' things does not detract knowledge from a slacker.

A bell curve is a simple way to normalize grades across many teachers - to prevent grade creep, but it is susceptible to making bad teachers look good (somebody is still getting an A), and good teachers look bad (everyone in the class learned lots, but the same number of F's are still handed out).

[kail]

Free college is a bad idea because it is too expensive for the government and the tax payers.

Then ask yourself: Why college is this expensive?

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

We should be paying students to go to school.

Don't show up then you don't get paid.

Get good grades? Get more money.

Don't get passing grades, don't get paid.

Have enough money that you don't need to go to school? bye.

Rich enough that you can buy your way through academia? fine, another life lesson learned.

After a generation or two you'd have separated the wheat from the chaff and at the very least you'd have a whole generation of people that understand the value of money.

[Garnier Fructis]

We should be paying students to go to school.

Welcome to grad school.

[Wikiy]

Bell curving education doesn't make sense because it is not a mutually exclusive experience - a keener knowing 'the most' things does not detract knowledge from a slacker.

A bell curve is a simple way to normalize grades across many teachers - to prevent grade creep, but it is susceptible to making bad teachers look good (somebody is still getting an A), and good teachers look bad (everyone in the class learned lots, but the same number of F's are still handed out).

I was merely addressing the idea that allowing for free college might result in an overflow of workers in that discipline in the market. If that truly is the case (it isn't, but let's say it is in a hypothetical world), i don't find it an abhorrent idea that the college in question is hard enough that many simply fail.

Mind you, I'm not even talking about bell-curving. I'm talking about setting a standard of difficulty. Not a quota of passage. So, if, by some magic, the entire year of students decide to not be lazy (instead of just the half), they can all pass. I know this might all seem overly cruel, but the system already is in place, well, probably everywhere, in my country it definitely is. I study physics and I know many other students who've both passed and not passed certain years and I can tell you with certainty that it is so much not about being talented or smart or whatnot. It's all about being hard-working. So yes, when half the class drops off on first year (and there's no written or assumed rule that half must do so), I don't weep for them. They were lazy fuckers.

[Fadeslol]

We could pay for every kid to go to College but Illegal Immigrants are more important than American Citizens.

In California, Prop 187 wouldn't let Illegals to get public funding and let everyone in California get free College (Money, if i remember correctly, 20 billion could give to funding) but we don't give a shit about our Citizens.

[Cthulhu 2020]

But that was the reason for the problem?
Your solution to the problem is to make the problem bigger?

How is making it so that people can compete at the new "norm" with no debt making it worse? As it is the current norm incurs enormous debt.

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The most wealthy middle clas people are those that simply buy lots of property. They don't contribute anything to society apart from home ownership restrictions and paying as little tax as they can. Symptom of no space, lots of people I guess.

Yeah, that's a common theme among anyone on these forums that's remotely close to being able to say they're wealthy. They own land, rent it out, and often don't work. They are mostly conservative and of course have the worst attitudes about others needing to "work hard" meanwhile hardly working themselves.

[Lord Berserker]

We should be paying students to go to school.

Don't show up then you don't get paid.

Get good grades? Get more money.

Don't get passing grades, don't get paid.

Have enough money that you don't need to go to school? bye.

Rich enough that you can buy your way through academia? fine, another life lesson learned.

After a generation or two you'd have separated the wheat from the chaff and at the very least you'd have a whole generation of people that understand the value of money.

A good idea, except eventually you'll be paying people to take Gender Studies courses.

[smooshtheman]

College is free in the UK

and the UK is only a shadow of it former self, the great empire has fallen and wont get up again lol...nice try tho

[monkmastaeq]

I went to college , got my bachelors after that I decided to become a tradesman (journeyman flooring installer). In my case all of the money spent on my degree was a waste. I was tricked by everyone saying you had to get a degree to be something.

I think free college could help people find their true path. Also its quite simple if you don't get your degree YOU PAY, if you finish its free. Drop out rates are crazy. a good portion of the cost of education goes into room and board too, which i don't thin should be covered

[smooshtheman]

A good idea, except eventually you'll be paying people to take Gender Studies courses.

or paying wellfare people to sit in Student Life Skills class that teaches you how to use a library in college....what an ignorant idea to pay people for attending school....

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I went to college , got my bachelors after that I decided to become a tradesman (journeyman flooring installer). In my case all of the money spent on my degree was a waste. I was tricked by everyone saying you had to get a degree to be something.

I think free college could help people find their true path. Also its quite simple if you don't get your degree YOU PAY, if you finish its free. Drop out rates are crazy. a good portion of the cost of education goes into room and board too, which i don't thin should be covered

its not because you got a degree to install flooring? that may be why its a waste? if you learn anything in colllege it should be that you cannot expect to live freely and with wealth is you are not your own boss

[Hammerfest]

I tell kids they're better off learning a trade like welding than getting a liberal arts degree.

[Lord Berserker]

I tell kids they're better off learning a trade like welding than getting a liberal arts degree.

Out of the Question in the UK, Eastern Europeans effectively killed the Construction trade.