Legion: Elemental Specific

[FalcFalcFalc]

Current stat weights are Crit > Haste > Vers >> Mastery so you are indeed correct. We will be focusing on a crit heavy build utilizing PE/Asc/EM. Which is why I totally expect them to nerf PE as our burst is still very good (top 5-7 depending). PE outshines every other talent on that row, Icefury is close but you lose a ton of burst damage and therefore you taper off a lot quicker.

[gambit998]

Current stat weights are Crit > Haste > Vers >> Mastery so you are indeed correct. We will be focusing on a crit heavy build utilizing PE/Asc/EM. Which is why I totally expect them to nerf PE as our burst is still very good (top 5-7 depending). PE outshines every other talent on that row, Icefury is close but you lose a ton of burst damage and therefore you taper off a lot quicker.

Kay cool so could this be the reason as to why our AOE talents are going to pot because they are forcing us to run Crit on our gear to up our Single Target? thereby forcing us into a single build via our gear?

Really shitty design tbh.

[Deleted]

Honestly I'm really awaiting the next beta build hopefully tomorrow evening (night from tuesday to wednesday) to see if some of the heavy handed numbers tuning will be made undone. Because even with high crit rating where you do good burst in Asc/EM outside of it base numbers on Lava burst are on the low end, Lightning bolt is even worse.

Mechanically i don't see them tweaking the abilities much more over the next few weeks so let's be honest up untill Legion release we can pretty much say that Shaman AoE is a loss, they however do still have the ability to tune our numbers accordingly so our ST damage potential will be up there not just on the 3 min burst phases but also on a sustained level. One major mechanical change i would like to see and in my opinion isn't that hard to implement unless they made a big error in the hardcoding of stormkeeper is that stormkeeper should really be off GCD.

[gambit998]

Honestly I'm really awaiting the next beta build hopefully tomorrow evening (night from tuesday to wednesday) to see if some of the heavy handed numbers tuning will be made undone. Because even with high crit rating where you do good burst in Asc/EM outside of it base numbers on Lava burst are on the low end, Lightning bolt is even worse.

Mechanically i don't see them tweaking the abilities much more over the next few weeks so let's be honest up untill Legion release we can pretty much say that Shaman AoE is a loss, they however do still have the ability to tune our numbers accordingly so our ST damage potential will be up there not just on the 3 min burst phases but also on a sustained level. One major mechanical change i would like to see and in my opinion isn't that hard to implement unless they made a big error in the hardcoding of stormkeeper is that stormkeeper should really be off GCD.

Its actually refreshing to hear positive thoughts tbh. but the probability of Elemental even being looked at from this point on are almost 0 unfortunately. Shitty coefficents and unwarranted nerfs to said coefficients will leave us behind by a large margin again. Then again we are the post expansion class so they will most probably hotfix the crap out of us in the 1st week or too and make things worse before they get better

[Hivey]

Tuesday's expected patch will be the decider for me. Will be interesting to see if there's any balancing improvements within it.

[Omnious]

Tuesday's expected patch will be the decider for me. Will be interesting to see if there's any balancing improvements within it.

I hope for the best with Tuesday's (or whenever the next one is) patch, but no matter what I'll be staying Elemental. Numbers are always able to be tuned and while elemental always feels like it takes a post expac patch to catch up I have yet to really see performance issues that strike me worthy of reroll. Some minor complaints with AoE damage and it really being tied to RNG static overload procs, but thats really it.

[gambit998]

I hope for the best with Tuesday's (or whenever the next one is) patch, but no matter what I'll be staying Elemental. Numbers are always able to be tuned and while elemental always feels like it takes a post expac patch to catch up I have yet to really see performance issues that strike me worthy of reroll. Some minor complaints with AoE damage and it really being tied to RNG static overload procs, but thats really it.

Ye i agree i have stayed with this spec since BC through good times and WOD so the way i look at it, it Should not get worse than WOD was.

[Kazgrel]

Ye i agree i have stayed with this spec since BC through good times and WOD so the way i look at it, it Should not get worse than WOD was.

You clearly underestimate the current wow dev team.

[Hellfury]

Elemental started promising at the start of Alpha but since beta opened, it has been downhill from there.

Sad thing is that Elemental will seem pretty good on the pre-patch with all that haste that has been converted from the MS, and our "overpowered" tier set machine-gunning those Earth shocks.

But at 110 will be other story I tried mage/dk/retri/all rogue specs/DH some/enh and all of them blow elemental out of the water, ass rogue and enh isnt even funny the burst they can do and ppl say that EM/Asc makes good burst they clearly didnt seen what a ass rogue can do with all artifacts unlocked

[Taeldorian]

@gambit998 and @Omnious Major props to you for sticking with your class. Elemental is absolutely the best of the casters in terms of rotation, we just need the numbers. Target swapping problem is fixed, annoying totem issue was fixed, and many other issues were fixed. If we get tuned correctly meaning buffs instead of nerfs, Id go elemental OS since Enh is already my main. Still though, glad to see some people not re rolling to the best dps class out there or the FoTM spec.

I have no idea why mages are always topping meters. I feel like Mike Morhaime plays a mage or something, but this has always been the case. Hopefully they actually tune us correctly, but the devs havent exactly done a decent job of that in the past not only with ele but other classes and specs as well.

[Deleted]

- best caster in terms of rotation? Mages also have 3-4 rotational abilities and 0-1 DPS CDs - all casters use now a similiar sheme
- I'd call target swapping halfway fixed, since you still need FS for LvB. Other classes just need to switch target and can do 100% dmg
- totems gone, but many similiar abilities with ~1min CDs were added

[Taeldorian]

- best caster in terms of rotation? Mages also have 3-4 rotational abilities and 0-1 DPS CDs - all casters use now a similiar sheme
- I'd call target swapping halfway fixed, since you still need FS for LvB. Other classes just need to switch target and can do 100% dmg
- totems gone, but many similiar abilities with ~1min CDs were added

-This part is subjective. I find the rotation fun, so do others obviously, and then some find it to be boring or just another caster.

-Applying FS to other targets isnt an issue. We can apply it to anyone whenever we want, all it takes is one GCD. I believe we need a talent to spread it, but we dont have to wait in order to start our rotation. 1 GCD is all it takes compared to 5-6 seconds. MM hunters have to wait in order to target swap and do max efficient damage, Demo warlocks have to wait for CDs to swap because their pets are the main source of their damage, and the list goes on. Our problem is eliminated, 1 GCD instead of 5-6 seconds is a big change.

-1 minute CDs arent like the totems we had to keep down in order to min max. SK at least has interaction with our rotation, whereas our totem was just a set and forget.

Im not saying we are perfect and Im not saying those 1 minute Cds dont cause issues, but no class or spec is perfect. Im also saying Id take our 1 minute CDs over our boring set and forget totem any day. Other classes have to wait to target swap as I said above, some worse than others. We dont have that issue.

We see a priority target, we hit FS and then start dpsing meanwhile Demo warlocks have to set up all of their pets and by the time they are ready the add is dead or almost dead. MM hunters have to pray to the RNG gods for a crit so they can get the debuff that allows them to use their main ability on that priority target. They do have a talent that automatically puts it on a few targets but if its on CD its all up to RNG. Shadow priests in general have a somewhat long ramp up time in order to do good damage and that only works against target swapping. The list could go on.

[Mcbenchpress]

This is not accurate. Even if elemental average dps was anywhere near mages (it was not), elemental can't switch to priority targets and provide meaningful damage at all. This fact alone excluded elemental from any serious archimonde progression.

If you saw his dps as 'fine' he is probably just a lot better than the rest of your team and I would wager you killed the boss relatively late. You're adding qualifiers like 'execute mechanics properly' implying the mage player won't? If both players are good at mechanics, and reasonable at their class; mage > elemental every time.

Absolutely the mages did more damage and followed mechanics, that's why we kept them around. The problem arises when playing a Mage for most of WoD was a terrible experience because of how utterly flawed the design was. We ended the tier in the top 200 US (which is relatively early to me) and I can say with certainty that having an Ele (or Spriest, Feral, Frost DK and a WW) didn't hold us back one bit.

I think this might be a 'grass is always greener' situation. Mages do a lot of damage, but fucking suck to play. Shamans do mediocre damage, but are fun to play.

[Hellfury]

Absolutely the mages did more damage and followed mechanics, that's why we kept them around. The problem arises when playing a Mage for most of WoD was a terrible experience because of how utterly flawed the design was. We ended the tier in the top 200 US (which is relatively early to me) and I can say with certainty that having an Ele (or Spriest, Feral, Frost DK and a WW) didn't hold us back one bit.

I think this might be a 'grass is always greener' situation. Mages do a lot of damage, but fucking suck to play. Shamans do mediocre damage, but are fun to play.

for non top100, class variety is always better becuase gear is distributed more evenly

[Deleted]

-This part is subjective. I find the rotation fun, so do others obviously, and then some find it to be boring or just another caster.

-Applying FS to other targets isnt an issue. We can apply it to anyone whenever we want, all it takes is one GCD. I believe we need a talent to spread it, but we dont have to wait in order to start our rotation. 1 GCD is all it takes compared to 5-6 seconds. MM hunters have to wait in order to target swap and do max efficient damage, Demo warlocks have to wait for CDs to swap because their pets are the main source of their damage, and the list goes on. Our problem is eliminated, 1 GCD instead of 5-6 seconds is a big change.

-1 minute CDs arent like the totems we had to keep down in order to min max. SK at least has interaction with our rotation, whereas our totem was just a set and forget.

Im not saying we are perfect and Im not saying those 1 minute Cds dont cause issues, but no class or spec is perfect. Im also saying Id take our 1 minute CDs over our boring set and forget totem any day. Other classes have to wait to target swap as I said above, some worse than others. We dont have that issue.

We see a priority target, we hit FS and then start dpsing meanwhile Demo warlocks have to set up all of their pets and by the time they are ready the add is dead or almost dead. MM hunters have to pray to the RNG gods for a crit so they can get the debuff that allows them to use their main ability on that priority target. They do have a talent that automatically puts it on a few targets but if its on CD its all up to RNG. Shadow priests in general have a somewhat long ramp up time in order to do good damage and that only works against target swapping. The list could go on.

Rotation is not subjective, the flavour is. Like animations. You can still meassure a rotation.

If you think wasting a GCD is a non issue then we shouldnt discuss further.

1 minute CDs (namely SK) have to be used on CD based on the information I've read last. Then we've other low CD abilities.

I also dont say its useless per se, but its still miles behind being competitive.

[Taeldorian]

Rotation is not subjective, the flavour is. Like animations. You can still meassure a rotation.

If you think wasting a GCD is a non issue then we shouldnt discuss further.

1 minute CDs (namely SK) have to be used on CD based on the information I've read last. Then we've other low CD abilities.

I also dont say its useless per se, but its still miles behind being competitive.

I think spending a GCD on a dot rather than waiting 5-6 seconds after the dot is applied in order to do good damage is way better.

SK being used on CD isnt an issue. Every spec has CDS that have to be used on CD, some are 1 minute, some are 2, some 3, etc. SK has a lot of interaction with out rotation and our artifact. It can get weird, but its not boring or nearly as bad as our totem was. Our totem also cost a GCD every 3O *my zero key is broken* seconds and in order to min max we HAD to put it down. Id say SK is a step forward. Im not arguing about SK not being clunky or being the best 1 minute CD, Im saying its an improvement from our totem.

Id say number tuning is what we need to be competitive. Some of our mechanics can get weird like SK when we get certain procs and such, but mainly we just need the numbers to be there. As I said, our target swapping is fine compared to other specs *MM hunter, Demo lock, Shadow priest, etc* and if we compare it to our past iterations of target swapping its a large step forward. 1 GCD or 5 seconds, which is better? The only class I know that can freely target swap without any punishment is mage, but I dont know much about them in Legion so Im not sure if they still can or not. A ton of classes have an annoying time with target swapping in legion, its just not as bad as elementals current issue in WoD.

[Deleted]

SK is most definitely 5 steps backwards, since the idea of buttons buffing other buttons was removed in WoD. But somehow it is still okay for Elemental (UE in WoD, SK in Legion).

And the whole idea of 1 minute CDs is bullshit, and very few classes have it frost - DKs, BM hunters come to mind. Most classes dont even have CDs anymore. And not to mention that any SK costs another GCD on top of being the only non-offensive ability of any caster dps artifact.

Your main argument of "number tuning is the only thing we need" is also meh. They promised us a rework even before 6.1 - but who got reworked? Yeah, another Lock spec, SV hunter for whatever reason, Combat for whatever reason, Balance AGAIN reworked and many many others.

They also took away Shamanistic Rage and SWG without compromising us. GoW is still on the same tier. No def tier, etc.

[Jotaux]

The way the rotation feels is exactly the reason I switched to enhance for legion.

[Antilurker77]

Current stat weights are Crit > Haste > Vers >> Mastery so you are indeed correct. We will be focusing on a crit heavy build utilizing PE/Asc/EM. Which is why I totally expect them to nerf PE as our burst is still very good (top 5-7 depending). PE outshines every other talent on that row, Icefury is close but you lose a ton of burst damage and therefore you taper off a lot quicker.

Well, actually you want a mix of crit and haste. There's a sweet spot somewhere between the two somewhere, all though the difference between Crit/Haste and pure Crit was pretty small (~0.5%).

[Samodin]

So I never benched a fight in progression before. I used to play healer, but we have too many for Legion so I thought "hey this coukd be fun, I'll volunteer and play Dps this next Xpac. We wanted a ranged and my other lvl 100 are pally, monk and warrior, so I was like "Shaman it is!"

Then I come here for a casual read and
I
AM
SO
SCARED