Did Poland and Romania destroy the EU?

[Lord Berserker]

Do have to say this is a fun ride, watching one digging themselves deeper and deeper. Wonder if his account will last the night

It'll be banned because I dared to actually engage with the Europeans and they failed to deliver a dignified result.

All they do is crow and pretend they know better about the British than the British.

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That's curious, because I distinctively recall an obscure story in a obscure book about a dude whose whole nation had been hired/enslaved to do some bricklaying in a certain country. I think he was called Moses....

(Related : in most western countries, construction jobs were never especially popular-in France, even well before the 20th century, construction workers were the equivalent of dastardly foreigners ''stealing ur jobz''-Savoyards and Auvergnats.

Funny that, Britain isn't fucking France.

[Acidbaron]

Neither makes blaming problems that have other causes on immigration make them go away.
Most of the problems they blame on immigration (like housing and hospital waiting times) would be worse if not for the immigration they blame for them.

Do you believe house prices would go down if construction becomes more expensive because there are less workers?
Do you think waiting times in hospitals get better when you kick out all those doctors and nurses?

That's another important thing, a lot of people in the care sector come from eastern europe. We actually actively recruit them to come work here to make up for the shortage with an ever aging populace we'll simply need more immigrants not less.

[Lord Berserker]

Yeah, please quote me on that. Because so far I haven't said anything like that. My whole point is that you only compete with people who do a similar job.

Your entire argument has been "Oh well british workers are failing in a dying sector of work anyway, it's their fault" I outlined you were wrong, but you refused to understand and then started to feel smug when the Anti-british brigade roll in with their poxy paper thin world views and just accepted the basic tripe of "Oh it's just racism"

You're a fucking student, you have never worked a day in your life, you know literally nothing outside of the most basic economic priciples that are far too insufficent to let you comprehend what the fuck goes on in a country you're not fucking in.

[Noradin]

Guess that just makes me more European

Just fitting in with the Europeans then right?

Actually.... no it doesn't.

Doing something yourself that you condem others for doing makes you a hypocrite, you can look it up in a dictionary.
It isn't some synonyme for "European" (and if it was you should know to capitalise it--if you actually are from the UK as you claim).

[sarahtasher]

Alright then Mr Facist EU.

Steve wants to be paid £9.00 because he needs a decent living wage

Ivan will ask for Minimum Wage because he shares a bedsit with 5 other Polish workers and to him Minimum wage is a goldmine.

How will Steve ever get the job now.

You see I remember this thing called "British grown beef" sort of a big deal. it was effectively a tax on things not British grown beef to promote British produce.

Yet we can't do that for British workers can we due to the EU.

BTW, using ''Ivan''for poles is a case of falling at using the correct racial slur: it would be ''Jan''

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It'll be banned because I dared to actually engage with the Europeans and they failed to deliver a dignified result.

All they do is crow and pretend they know better about the British than the British.

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Funny that, Britain isn't fucking France.

You were using Irish and Scots.

[Noradin]

It'll be banned because I dared to actually engage with the Europeans and they failed to deliver a dignified result.

All they do is crow and pretend they know better about the British than the British.

Well, we could all pretend to be British like you do, and claim we know it just as well as the British, just like you.

[Cyberowl]

Your entire argument has been "Oh well british workers are failing in a dying sector of work anyway, it's their fault" I outlined you were wrong, but you refused to understand and then started to feel smug when the Anti-british brigade roll in with their poxy paper thin world views and just accepted the basic tripe of "Oh it's just racism"

You're a fucking student, you have never worked a day in your life, you know literally nothing outside of the most basic economic priciples that are far too insufficent to let you comprehend what the fuck goes on in a country you're not fucking in.

Please, quote me on that, should be funny. Oh, and I only started to talk about racism after you accused us of hating the British after spewing some bullshit after immigrants.

And yeah, I stand by the dying sector thingy. It's an economical truth that wealthier economies will abandon some markets and join new ones.

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And he is out. Turns out you get banned if you have no manners!

[Acidbaron]

It'll be banned because I dared to actually engage with the Europeans and they failed to deliver a dignified result.

All they do is crow and pretend they know better about the British than the British.

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Funny that, Britain isn't fucking France.

You'll be banned because you can't seem to discuss matters without throwing in personal insults and juvenile taunts. Nothing else

The UK is not located on Mars but in Europe, therefor it also being part of the same economy as the rest of the EU, the UK has very similar issues as the rest of the western EU zone.

[sarahtasher]

As I said a couple of times, trying to cast the Poles as ''dangerous migrants'' will fail-everyone have their limits, even racist

[Acidbaron]

As I said a couple of times, trying to cast the Poles as ''dangerous migrants'' will fail-everyone have their limits, even racist

Considering they have been here in the west for decades, it's a really hard sell.

[Unionoob]

Yet if we suddenly want to look after our construction industry, we're evil and Xenophobic because we want to stop the influx of Cheap labour killing our industries.

So.. You are telling more expensive labor force will fix your industries? Please explain me how your industries will compete with China when they will be more expensive?

[Macaquerie]

BTW, using ''Ivan''for poles is a case of falling at using the correct racial slur: it would be ''Jan''

I do like how the guy raging against Poles couldn't even come up with a suitably stereotypical Polish name for his hypothetical jerb tuking immigrant scum and had to resort to a vaguely Russian sounding one.

[Mangusei]

I like how Brexit gave a free ticket for pretty much every second british citizen to be out right xenophobic. Shows the true face of that pathetic nation.

On Polish workers. I will say about it from Norwegian perspective. Yes they come here in big numbers and most of the time know very little english and even less norwegian. But that's not a problem. They work hard and get very little benefits from the state compared to immigrants from Africa who have a free ride on everything (free house, school and in many cases even food) or even Norwegian citizens.

Norway is benefiting a lot from having polish, romanian and lithuanian workers. Our construction sector boomed because of this.

Ofcourse there are some cases of them acting loud, rude or commiting crimes. But nothing really serious. And it's only tiny percentage of all the immigrants.

Also Western countries benefit so much selling their products or expanding their companies in Poland it's just silly. You are actually damaging the economy of that country because local companies can't compete with your know-how.

So yeah Polish, Romanian etc. people are not the problem. If any immigrants are, it's the ones from Africa.

Stop bashing on Eastern Europe just because they are white and not protected by the race agenda. You are being delusional.

[Cyberowl]

So.. You are telling more expensive labor force will fix your industries? Please explain me how your industries will compete with China when they will be more expensive?

What's also funny is he doesn't even realize that expensive labor force will get replaced by capital. There are machines for bricklaying, for example. Employers will drop the workers on the spot if they demand a higher payment for their jobs.

[Coconut]

Good welding can mean the different between falling apart in 10 years or 100 years. But you showed how well the "Economists" care about Quality on a building site.

This is some blatant cognitive bias right here. Not only are Brits always better than Poles, but you feel the need to take the difference to the most extreme hyperbole. Not like there are any industry standards that have to be respected. Even if there is a difference in the quality of the work, it will be somewhere around 10-30%, in tune with the difference in pay.


But even assuming you are right, and you truly are a lot more skilled - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because I understand your frustration - kicking out the cheap labor doesn't change anything as long as there is no market for a better, more expensive product, and the foreign workers are not the ones dictating that market.. The problem comes from the Industry, which decides to lower its standards in order to reduce costs, and the Consumers, because they manifest a preference towards that kind of work at that kind of price.

If you get rid of the cheap labor, here's what's gonna happen:

a. Prices will go up to reflect the increase in costs, and you'll see this having a direct effect on the market. Fewer people buy the better, more expensive houses, and there will be fewer jobs for you in the industry. And/Or, the whole market will feel the effect and, while will get paid 9₤, that will be worth what 7₤ used to be in the past (or less). You will be asking for 12₤ now, and maybe an Irish or Scot will do it for 9, and the cycle of hatred will start all over again.

b. The Industry will try to reduce costs some other way. They will hire fewer people to do the same job, or they will require you to do more work over the same amount of time; you will be strained, and the quality of your work will decrease, or you would simply not be allowed the time you need to work at your standards of quality. Alternatively, they will buy cheaper materials, and you will have to work with that as well as you can, obviously resulting in much poorer quality than you brag about now.

[Mangusei]

Not only that. Cheap labor means immigrants get all the "unwanted" jobs while locals take the higher wage/higher skill ones. This is exactly how it is in Norway. Norwegians get the higher wage more skilled jobs and immigrants do all the "dirty" work. Everyone is content and the country is benefiting.

[bufferunderrun]

What's also funny is he doesn't even realize that expensive labor force will get replaced by capital. There are machines for bricklaying, for example. Employers will drop the workers on the spot if they demand a higher payment for their jobs.

this maybe possible in usa but in europe there are already talk about a robot tax, so for now moving from a human workforce to a mechanized one will be extremely unprofitable.
The point btw isn't only about what the job market in west europe there are numerous article on the internet on how east europe is suffering from "land grabbing", all in all the only one who are profiting from this are the richs.

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Not only that. Cheap labor means immigrants get all the "unwanted" jobs while locals take the higher wage/higher skill ones. This is exactly how it is in Norway. Norwegians get the higher wage more skilled jobs and immigrants do all the "dirty" work. Everyone is content and the country is benefiting.

unwanter job are like that precisely because the market is dumped by cheap labor.

[Mangusei]

this maybe possible in usa but in europe there are already talk about a robot tax, so for now moving from a human workforce to a mechanized one will be extremely unprofitable.
The point btw isn't only about what the job market in west europe there are numerous article on the internet on how east europe is suffering from "land grabbing", all in all the only one who are profiting from this are the richs.

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unwanter job are like that precisely because the market is dumped by cheap labor.

No, unwanted jobs are unwanted not because of wage but because of their character. They are the physical, shitty jobs like cleaning, working in the kitchen, serving customers food, construction work, working in the warehouse etc. While the "wanted" jobs are the cozy office ones. And it's exactly like that in Norway. If it's an office job - you will see Norwegian there. If it's the shitty job - immigrant. Everyone wins, except the lazy, unskilled people who can't even put effort into getting some form of education or skills (even one year course here in Norway is enough to get yourself a decent job).

[Malacrass]

As I said a couple of times, trying to cast the Poles as ''dangerous migrants'' will fail-everyone have their limits, even racist

The racists here in Germany jump on the next best minority, make no mistake here. It's how they thrive (us vs. them).

Before the refugee crisis they were allover the poles and czechs as well, spreading the image of the criminal pole/czech stealing your cars and breaking into your homes. Sadly we do have cases of criminal gangs from those 2 countries, especially at our borders, so they do have an easy time painting with a big brush.

So make no mistake my polish and czech friends who think that the far right wants one close Europe, including you folks. Once the refugee crisis is handled (and people here already stop giving a damn) they will come right back at you - or any other minority that makes an easy "us vs. them" target.

[Acidz]

God, this clown again.