30% Dungeon and World Content nerf?

[The Cheat]

Also, the HFC trinket nerf was entirely uncalled for, there's literally zero reason to nerf them when they become obsolete soon anyway. They could instead have done it like with SoO trinkets, which disabled themselves at 91+.

This is about the change to RPPM trinkets not having guaranteed procs on the pull right? That one basically makes Soul Cap useless in conjunction with the ring; I'd assume any others are equally as nuked.

The SoO trinkets still worked 91+, the effectiveness just diminished greatly as you leveled up. My hunter was still getting some cooldown reduction at 93 until I replaced it leveling up the other day. I do miss 7 seconds between Disengages though. I do remember the CDR trinkets being bugged at WoD launch and granting basically nothing, but that seems to have been fixed at some point.

[Deleted]

This is about the change to RPPM trinkets not having guaranteed procs on the pull right? That one basically makes Soul Cap useless in conjunction with the ring; I'd assume any others are equally as nuked.

The SoO trinkets still worked 91+, the effectiveness just diminished greatly as you leveled up. My hunter was still getting some cooldown reduction at 93 until I replaced it leveling up the other day. I do miss 7 seconds between Disengages though. I do remember the CDR trinkets being bugged at WoD launch and granting basically nothing, but that seems to have been fixed at some point.

Normal mode trinket not upgraded 0/2 (live): http://www.wowhead.com/item=124230/p...f-fear&bonus=0
Mythic mode trinket fully upgraded 2/2 (PTR): http://legion.wowhead.com/item=12423...ear&bonus=1799

The difference is massive, the normal live version is at least 25% stronger than the mythic ptr version.

[Tharkkun]

I agree they should be balancing for 100 until August 30th. No clue if they'll do it.

This post in the feedback thread sheds great light on the topic for those who haven't seen it: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...6779?page=2#32

Nah it's a waste of time and resources to do so. For about a month after every pre-patch things are not balanced. Once you reach 110 the balance starts to come into play again. They could spend days balancing and tuning or they could work on balance that's going to matter at the new end game.

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Normal mode trinket not upgraded 0/2 (live): http://www.wowhead.com/item=124230/p...f-fear&bonus=0
Mythic mode trinket fully upgraded 2/2 (PTR): http://legion.wowhead.com/item=12423...ear&bonus=1799

The difference is massive, the normal live version is at least 25% stronger than the mythic ptr version.

Isn't that because they removed the ilevel inflation they added to the trinkets to make them appealing over BRF trinkets? That buff isn't necessary since the content is no longer relevant.

[TiaMaster]

This thread, oh man.

Didn't have time to look through it, but the HFC nerf currently on PTR got raised to a 40% health reduction (up from 30%); the 30% damage reduction remains unchanged. Since this is going to be the first pre-expansion patch in a very long time that actually reduces relative player DPS (for various reasons but notably because we're tuned around artifacts), they had to actually increase the nerf. Original 30% of the health reduction is the standard nerf, the additional 10% has been to account for relative DPS loss.

The OP's premise is false.

Not sure how you can say that after proving the OPs point about it needing nerfing because of player damage reduction. His premise (other than the crap about nerfing everything), of saying BLizzard is nerfing this time because of the player damage reduction and not SIMPLY because they always do it seems a lot more credible now after reading your post.

[Nevcairiel]

Isn't that because they removed the ilevel inflation they added to the trinkets to make them appealing over BRF trinkets? That buff isn't necessary since the content is no longer relevant.

It is, HFC trinkets were totally over-budget, which caused serious DPS inflation among all the classes.
Removing DPS inflation from HFC trinkets and nerfing HFC in return does not impact the balance or scaling of any other content before it.

So far, all I have heard is that fully raid geared people complain about reduced DPS. Did anyone bother to prove if thats because of the trinket nerf, or actually the classes themself doing less DPS? Because the relative power from HFC trinkets should not be taken as an argument to nerf any content you should be doing long before you enter HFC anyway.

[OrcsRLame]

My biggest issue with the level 100 tuning is the tank damage. 30% Doesn't feel like even close to enough, because as a prot pally not only has my mitigation been nerfed, but my self healing through absorbs has gone from like 100k+ to ~20k. End result is LFR Archimonde hits me harder than most mythic bosses on live.

[Defmaster]

Or they could add a draenor wide buff like the weekly buff for Apexis etc. Which reads like "the presence of X increases your dmg and sturdiness. +%dmg and dm reduce"
With the launch of Legion the buff drops as the presence is going away. And as wod is no longer current Content buff is not needed anymore.
They would not have to deal with further Balancing at 100

[Deleted]

Can you please, for the love of Christ, tell me what is so fucking important about Mythic dungeons and world content during the prepatch?

Yeah i can tell you.
I have 8 level 90 alts that i have to level to 100.
IF because of the prepatch it´s gonna take me longer to do so, well it is for sure not the end of the world, but i am not gonna lie, i am not happy about it.

[Tharkkun]

It won't be a 1-2 second difference for Mythic dungeon bosses. It won't be a 1-2 second second difference for Elite farming in Draenor. It won't be a 1-2 second difference when solo'ing MoP raids.

And we're expected to put up with this for 6 weeks? After almost 13 months of waiting? I'm sorry, but Blizzard can do better than this. Plus that gear will do absolutely nothing for people already 7XX. I actually feel like I'm being trolled here.

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In absolute terms, maybe. But that's not important. What's important is relative power. I don't ever remember going into a dungeon during a pre-patch and taking 30% longer to complete the dungeon. And if anything like that did happen, it would have been for more than 24 hours.

You also don't sit there and count it either. 30% could be an extra 2-3 minutes tops when you're clearing a full dungeon in 10 minutes.

[Turtel]

It is, HFC trinkets were totally over-budget, which caused serious DPS inflation among all the classes.
Removing DPS inflation from HFC trinkets and nerfing HFC in return does not impact the balance or scaling of any other content before it.

So far, all I have heard is that fully raid geared people complain about reduced DPS. Did anyone bother to prove if thats because of the trinket nerf, or actually the classes themself doing less DPS? Because the relative power from HFC trinkets should not be taken as an argument to nerf any content you should be doing long before you enter HFC anyway.

There's a lot of other changes that should reduce damage. Even if the trinkets had remained unchanged, simply the removal of raid buffs alone accounts for a large chunk of the damage reduction: we'll have 5% lower stats, 5% lower crit, 5% lower haste, 5% lower multistrike, 10% lower attack/spell power, 3% lower versatility. If, as a rough approximation, we assume each of these buffs gave us a 3% damage boost, this change imposes a 1/(1.03^6) = 84% damage reduction factor (i.e. someone doing 100k DPS would only do about 84k DPS from losing all their buffs).

That's not all either. We've also lost the Draenor Perks, which generally provided a big damage boost. For example, I play an MM hunter; we no longer gain 50% extra Aimed Shot crit chance under Careful Aim, we also no longer get 20 focus returned when Aimed Shot crits. The Aimed Shot coefficient has also been significantly reduced, it does about 40% of what it does on live; this is no doubt because our Artifact significantly buffs Aimed Shot so they have to nerf Aimed Shot in order to compensate. Our execute ability (Kill Shot) has also been removed, to be replaced by a trait on our Artifact. The thing is, we won't have the Artifact during the prepatch so it's just a straight up nerf/removal of core DPS abilities, which I'm sure has happened to other classes as well.

Another point to make is that we'll have one less stat (we're losing Multistrike). Yes, all our multistrike will be moved into other stats, but this means that each individual stat point in our gear will be worth less. It's a bit complicated due to the complex interaction between stats and our damage, but generally speaking, it's better to have 20% spread across 5 different damage boosting stats (a total of 100%), than to have all that 100% in 1 single stat.

[Baconeggcheese]

I mean buff the classes directly, not the zone. There's absolutely no reason for all classes to be balanced at like 50% of what they previously were.

From what I've seen on the alpha / beta as well as this PTR stuff, they're really just coming to terms with power creep having been a massive issue for the last 2 xpacs. This is a perfect opportunity to curb it without doing a full squish, they'd be silly not to take advantage of that.

[Hexxidecimal]

From what I've seen on the alpha / beta as well as this PTR stuff, they're really just coming to terms with power creep having been a massive issue for the last 2 xpacs. This is a perfect opportunity to curb it without doing a full squish, they'd be silly not to take advantage of that.

This. Also want to mention this. If you have played on the PTR or will be playing post prepatch/pre legion, PLEASE keep in mind that a LOT of the power and in some cases the very way that some classes play have been baked into the artifacts. If you feel your class is gutting in the PTR, well I won't lie, pretty much everyone saw a lot of ability trim. Some of that will return however with the artifacts so don't fret too much or judge too harshly till legion goes live.

As far as balancing is concerned when it comes to world content, etc etc...no real point. That sort of massive change would be a waste of time as none of that content will be experienced in remotely the same way post legion. Instead spend the time playing with other specs and classes. You may want to change what your main is, as is a regular occurence it seems. Many people I know who have been playing a certain spec and class for years find the trimming to be a bit to harsh (I don't I quite like it) but are finding love in other classes they are less familiar with and have less expectations to what they should have available to them ability wise.

[Deleted]

There's a lot of other changes that should reduce damage. Even if the trinkets had remained unchanged, simply the removal of raid buffs alone accounts for a large chunk of the damage reduction: we'll have 5% lower stats, 5% lower crit, 5% lower haste, 5% lower multistrike, 10% lower attack/spell power, 3% lower versatility. If, as a rough approximation, we assume each of these buffs gave us a 3% damage boost, this change imposes a 1/(1.03^6) = 84% damage reduction factor (i.e. someone doing 100k DPS would only do about 84k DPS from losing all their buffs).

That's not all either. We've also lost the Draenor Perks, which generally provided a big damage boost. For example, I play an MM hunter; we no longer gain 50% extra Aimed Shot crit chance under Careful Aim, we also no longer get 20 focus returned when Aimed Shot crits. The Aimed Shot coefficient has also been significantly reduced, it does about 40% of what it does on live; this is no doubt because our Artifact significantly buffs Aimed Shot so they have to nerf Aimed Shot in order to compensate. Our execute ability (Kill Shot) has also been removed, to be replaced by a trait on our Artifact. The thing is, we won't have the Artifact during the prepatch so it's just a straight up nerf/removal of core DPS abilities, which I'm sure has happened to other classes as well.

Another point to make is that we'll have one less stat (we're losing Multistrike). Yes, all our multistrike will be moved into other stats, but this means that each individual stat point in our gear will be worth less. It's a bit complicated due to the complex interaction between stats and our damage, but generally speaking, it's better to have 20% spread across 5 different damage boosting stats (a total of 100%), than to have all that 100% in 1 single stat.

The coming 6 weeks will be by far the most dire state the game has ever been in. They could as well just shut down the servers during those 6 weeks.
It's beyond ridiculous that we don't get anything to compensate 100% for those undesirable nerfs.
So basically artifacts aren't really buffing us, they just return us to a somewhat playable state, while without any points in it we are completely unplayable.

[javen]

The blue post that explains the nerf aura says that it should lead to an easier experience in HFC, though maybe not 30% due to passive raids buffs going away at the same time.

If that's not your experience, you should submit a report on the PTR.

[Baconeggcheese]

The coming 6 weeks will be by far the most dire state the game has ever been in. They could as well just shut down the servers during those 6 weeks.
It's beyond ridiculous that we don't get anything to compensate 100% for those undesirable nerfs.
So basically artifacts aren't really buffing us, they just return us to a somewhat playable state, while without any points in it we are completely unplayable.

You're being quite dramatic here.

[nazrakin]

The coming 6 weeks will be by far the most dire state the game has ever been in. They could as well just shut down the servers during those 6 weeks.
It's beyond ridiculous that we don't get anything to compensate 100% for those undesirable nerfs.
So basically artifacts aren't really buffing us, they just return us to a somewhat playable state, while without any points in it we are completely unplayable.

Or you could just not play for the next 6 weeks. Why subject yourself to such torture.

[Relapses]

Yeah i can tell you.
I have 8 level 90 alts that i have to level to 100.
IF because of the prepatch it´s gonna take me longer to do so, well it is for sure not the end of the world, but i am not gonna lie, i am not happy about it.

...why would you wait until the prepatch to do this?

[sheaebay]

...why would you wait until the prepatch to do this?

i was thinking the same thing... Or if its tough use those +EXP flasks from garrison. I think its 10 or 20% for 1 hour. And if you have the spare gold, use the 15minute 300% exp flask as well.

and next time dont wait so long if you can help it...

[Deleted]

...why would you wait until the prepatch to do this?

Because in WOD, i have been doing an ultraleveling, for gold among other things, and this eight characters were not going to be on time to generate gold, so i decided to take a little break because there was no hurry to finish their leveling until august the 30th, but you see life is like this, surprise surprise.
I must admit i never suspected this was gonna be the case, if anything i thought after the prepatch the chars would be more powerful so the leveling would be faster.
Well at least i greatly enjoyed the break time, the month of Dark souls 3 is something i will never regret XD.

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and next time dont wait so long if you can help it...

Well at least i will not take the effects of a prepatch for granted XD.

[styil]

The blue post that explains the nerf aura says that it should lead to an easier experience in HFC, though maybe not 30% due to passive raids buffs going away at the same time.

If that's not your experience, you should submit a report on the PTR.

But this issue is about everything other than HFC.