No flying in 7.0 confirmed

[shonist]

u dont have ground mounts yourself?

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Easy way to achieve this via quest design:

Main Objective: Free the princess
2nd objective: Kill the bad guy holding her prisoner
3rd objective: Secure every level of the castle (= kill x mobs on every level of the castle)

You can only complete the main objective if you also finish the other objectives.

See, now the player will fight his way through the castle because your quest design tells him what to do to complete the quest.

Also, if you hold someone captive, you usually don't leave open balconys right beside where your captive could flee or be freed from. If you do so as a baddy, you deserve to be mocked by heroes who have some kind of means to get to such a balcony.

Edit: But if you want to do your players a favor, you could let them open a balcony after completing the quest, so they could fly away after the successful rescue. This also makes a great finishing scene, flying out into the dawn / dusk / starry night / whatever...

Honestly, as if Blizzard devs don't have any imagination left...

That isnt the best neither,

why would you need to kill everyone or X number of mobs?

see? without that tasks, you can do the content in many other ways.

Kill everyone, go stealth and bypass every guard unless the ones that spot you stealth or not, or the mobs around the princess that will attack you when you click her.

you can control mobs, polymorph, incapacite, blind, etc...

that is gameplay freedom, not have to kill everyone.

But ey, ppl feel locked on one way to do things cuz they cant fly...

[WowIsDead64]

Ok, so now we have a more realistic scenario of Legion's open world. Example of a quest's Objectives:

-Kill 12 Demons around a Demon portal
-Locate the original Demon Portal and Shut it down
-Kill Master Demon Izual

Big question - if quest tells us to kill exactly 12 demons, then why do we have to waste our time on killing another 100? For what purpose? Immersion? Just to slow us down? Yeah, killing this mobs - may be the way to do this quest, intended by Blizzard. But...it isn't explicit. So there is simple psychological effect - players feel, that they're wasting time and it annoys them.

Better example: you have to also close 10 portals. There is limited amount of them, so there is a competition for them - you have to find portal intact and close it, before any other players will do it. Problem is in fact, that in order to close portal - you have to kill all mobs on a way to it and around it, so you won't be in combat. Problem is in fact, that while you kill mobs - other players steal your portals (I call it "ratting" - because they behave like a rats). Result - you waste your time via killing pointless mobs and walking from one portal to another.

This competitive quest design leaded to questing strategy, established long time ago - back in Vanilla. If you don't want to waste your time: quest, that can cause biggest waste of time - should have priority and should be done first. I.e. if you have to kill big boss, collect 10 items and kill 10 mobs - you have to kill big boss first, as he has 10 minutes respawn timer, then you have to collect items, because there is a limited amount of them - and only then you can focus on killing mobs, because there is a lot of them around (it's better to kill them in process of doing other quests).

So, Blizzard realized, that players use flying to do quests exactly according to this priority - kill boss first, then collect items and only then - kill mobs. But instead of fixing their flawed competitive quest design - they force players to play it "as intended", which leads to extremely annoying and unenjoyful gameplay. And Blizzard seem to not even realize, why it happens. They think, that it happens just because players want to "skip" content. And players actually want to skip competition. Just because...PVE isn't about competition - it's about teamplay.

[wing5wong]

MMO - isn't game, where there is only one way to do the same content. If it is - then game design is wrong.

Killer's way to free princess - hides outside of castle and kills all other players, who come to castle - forgets about princess herself.
Explorer's way to free princess - explores all corners of caste, finds old manuscript, goes away - forgets about princess herself.
Socializer's way to free princess - finds raid via chat and kills dragon outside of castle, gets some epic loot - forgets about princess herself.
Achiever's way to free princess - farms all monsters inside castle 24/7 to earn some gold, mounts, pets and gear - forgets about princess herself.
RPer's way to free princess - flies to princess, frees her, then flies away, cuz "Free princess" - is the only thing, quest tells him to do. But... At least princess is finally free!

Err... Basically dont do the quests?
I guess that's uyp to you, but hardly a thing to design around

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Big question - if quest tells us to kill exactly 12 demons, then why do we have to waste our time on killing another 100? For what purpose? Immersion? Just to slow us down? Yeah, killing this mobs - may be the way to do this quest, intended by Blizzard. But...it isn't explicit. So there is simple psychological effect - players feel, that they're wasting time and it annoys them.

Better example: you have to also close 10 portals. There is limited amount of them, so there is a competition for them - you have to find portal intact and close it, before any other players will do it. Problem is in fact, that in order to close portal - you have to kill all mobs on a way to it and around it, so you won't be in combat. Problem is in fact, that while you kill mobs - other players steal your portals (I call it "ratting" - because they behave like a rats). Result - you waste your time via killing pointless mobs and walking from one portal to another.

This competitive quest design leaded to questing strategy, established long time ago - back in Vanilla. If you don't want to waste your time: quest, that can cause biggest waste of time - should have priority and should be done first. I.e. if you have to kill big boss, collect 10 items and kill 10 mobs - you have to kill big boss first, as he has 10 minutes respawn timer, then you have to collect items, because there is a limited amount of them - and only then you can focus on killing mobs, because there is a lot of them around (it's better to kill them in process of doing other quests).

This is exactly the reason blizzard introduced faster respawning mobs and quest nodes.
Standing around in a quest location unable to progress because there are 100 others there also attempting to click nodes leads to people just standing on 1 node waiting for a respawn.
This is not interesting design. This is not good design. This is not enjoyable design

[Eapoe]

That's because I abandoned my old account due to thinking, that Wow playerbase became insane and hopeless, if it thought, that WOD - was THE BEST WOW XPACK EVER MADE, while I was thinking, that it was the worst one. I returned only when I realized, that I was right.

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Again you put words into my mouth. You assume too much. It takes one to know one - don't judge other people by yourself. Two things, that I've said: 1) I want to play xpack, when it's released - not after a year, when it's obsolete, cuz it kills all the excitement of entering new unexplored world 2) I want to do the same content, I was doing in previous xpack, cuz it's content, I enjoy - I don't want developers to assume, that I will enjoy other content, only due to xpack being fresh and new. I.e. if I don't enjoy PVP - I won't enjoy it, even if Blizzard would release 10 brand new BGs. I don't enjoy exploring, treasure hunting and jump puzzles, cuz I'm "Achiever" + "RPer" - and won't all of a sudden start to enjoy them, just because Blizzard released new leveling/outdoor content. May be I would be doing them, when I was completely new to Wow and hadn't decided, what content suited me yet, as it happened back in WotLK, when I was experimenting with different kinds of content, like PVP and PUG raids, but not now, when I've already settled on content, I enjoy. No need to force me to do them, just because you assumed, that I would like them, and spent resources on making them, as it happened with dailies back in MOP. If Blizzard think, that all players are "hidden explorers", who start to explore new content, once it's released - then they are wrong.

You assumed wrong. It's not about overgear, making game trivial. Don't try to make this strawman from me. I actually don't play on one character - once one character is ilvl695, I start doing content on other one from scratch. So I don't ask to overtrivilize content for me, as I've got used to my Mythic gear, one-shotting mobs, don't want to do content without it and want to have it on my mail box on day one instead.

This makes so little sense. You want to play from day 1, you can, just not with flight. Then you say you want to do old content because you enjoy it. There's nothing stopping you from both of these goals other than your own mentality of "no fly no buy."
You state it's not about over trivializing the content and gear issues, yet you say once you are 695 you play other characters and want to go into the end content day 1 of max level without the gear, which you could only do completely effectively with either gear or flight.
Nobody is forcing you to do content. Blizzard is forcing you to do content without flight until it's unlocked and earned. If content is not something you enjoy, then no amount of flying will suddenly make that better, it will just make it go quicker.

[Wingspan]

its an mmorpg, if you have to FREE THE PRINCESS IN A CASTLE, and to do that, you have to beat the securitys, the guards, the "boss" why would you be able to fly to the top of the castle and land on the princess head, fast click her and mount out of there?

The obvious solution here is not to put the captive princess on top of a castle and put her in a dungeon (where captives are known to be held from time to time). In fact by doing so, flying to the top of the castle would make it so that it actually takes MORE effort to save her... not less.

Dont complain about cant fly on legion,
be gracefull you can fly on the old content.

People come to forums to complain, so asking someone not to complain is kind of silly.

That said, suggesting older content for flying (for those who want to fly) does not exactly inspire people to spend money on a new expansion. If I really wanted to fly and the old content is the only place I can do it, then why pay for the new material?

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

It's been confirmed for a very very long time lol...
The whistle on top of the achievement boost are very good. It's just travel though. Nothing anyone should be concerned with especially given the whistle. Very fair compromise.

[Wingspan]

It's been confirmed for a very very long time lol...

Bliz is still trying to phase out flight for all they are worth, but (like last time) I don't think it is going to end well.

It should be fun to watch though.

The whistle on top of the achievement boost are very good. It's just travel though. Nothing anyone should be concerned with especially given the whistle. Very fair compromise.

Only fair if you have no real interest in flight anyway... otherwise, it helps, but it is no real substitute.

[Mafic]

It's been confirmed for a very very long time lol...
The whistle on top of the achievement boost are very good. It's just travel though. Nothing anyone should be concerned with especially given the whistle. Very fair compromise.

That isn't a fair compromise. If you are trolling please continue.

[MoanaLisa]

Bliz is still trying to phase out flight for all they are worth, but (like last time) I don't think it is going to end well.

How so? They said months and months ago that the Pathfinder model they used in Warlords would be used in Legion. What's the evidence that they are "still trying to phase out flight for all they are worth"? I'd like to see it. Unless it's just your opinion; don't really need to see that.

[rda]

How so? They said months and months ago that the Pathfinder model they used in Warlords would be used in Legion. What's the evidence that they are "still trying to phase out flight for all they are worth"? I'd like to see it. Unless it's just your opinion; don't really need to see that.

Evidence: not giving flight at launch, not even with a timegate like "you have to get that rep, and it takes a month", not telling when it's going to be available (not "in 7.1", not "we think in 7.1", just "later").

In a nutshell, they are going to sit on the sidelines and see for how long can they go without flying. That's all you need to know to make a judgement.

If your point is that waiting for as long as possible to enable flight in current content is different from removing flying forever, the difference isn't large (and "trying to phase out flight" suits the former perfectly).

[WowIsDead64]

Err... Basically dont do the quests?
I guess that's uyp to you, but hardly a thing to design around

Believe me or not, but players come to outdoor for different purposes. Quests and rewards - are just bait, that encourages them to do it, but at the end they come there to do different things - one come there to actually do quests and another - to gank him.

This is exactly the reason blizzard introduced faster respawning mobs and quest nodes.
Standing around in a quest location unable to progress because there are 100 others there also attempting to click nodes leads to people just standing on 1 node waiting for a respawn.
This is not interesting design. This is not good design. This is not enjoyable design

First of all it kills all the immersion. Beating enemies and collecting items are felt pointless, if they respawn immediately. This is the biggest question - why do we need to kill mobs, if they respawn anyway? In the past, when you were clearing location - it really felt like beating your enemies. It was also making getting away from location easier. Also mobs were posing some threat, so it was necessary to clear location to make it safe. And when mob respawns at the same spot 5 TIMES IN A ROW - how can it be felt immersive? It's felt like a broken video game, sorry.

And this solutions are just crutches and supports - not real solutions of problem. They soften the problem, but don't solve it. They decrease one kinds of griefing, but introduce new ones. I want to remind you, that shared tags and mob HP increasing may cause even worse griefing, than we had. Also. There is simple answer: if Blizzard want to decrease competition for things, then why this competition is there in a first place? There are more effective ways to achieve this goal. For example to make locations bigger and spread players more evenly. World is big. Why do all players have exactly the same daily quests, that forces them all into one tiny location? So Blizzard seem to stack players on the top of each other intentionally. Why?

So. I just don't understand Blizzards' game design. I'm "RPer". I play MMORPG. I'm "Achiever". MMOs have always been intended to be for "Achievers". But I feel, like since Cata Blizzard have been taking one piece of content, that was intended to be mine, after another and giving it to some other players. To whom? Why? I don't understand. They don't explain.

[Eapoe]

Believe me or not, but players come to outdoor for different purposes. Quests and rewards - are just bait, that encourages them to do it, but at the end they come there to do different things - one come there to actually do quests and another - to gank him.


First of all it kills all the immersion. Beating enemies and collecting items are felt pointless, if they respawn immediately. This is the biggest question - why do we need to kill mobs, if they respawn anyway? In the past, when you were clearing location - it really felt like beating your enemies. It was also making getting away from location easier. Also mobs were posing some threat, so it was necessary to clear location to make it safe. And when mob respawns at the same spot 5 TIMES IN A ROW - how can it be felt immersive? It's felt like a broken video game, sorry.

And this solutions are just crutches and supports - not real solutions of problem. They soften the problem, but don't solve it. They decrease one kinds of griefing, but introduce new ones. I want to remind you, that shared tags and mob HP increasing may cause even worse griefing, than we had. Also. There is simple answer: if Blizzard want to decrease competition for things, then why this competition is there in a first place? There are more effective ways to achieve this goal. For example to make locations bigger and spread players more evenly. World is big. Why do all players have exactly the same daily quests, that forces them all into one tiny location? So Blizzard seem to stack players on the top of each other intentionally. Why?

So. I just don't understand Blizzards' game design. I'm "RPer". I play MMORPG. I'm "Achiever". MMOs have always been intended to be for "Achievers". But I feel, like since Cata Blizzard have been taking one piece of content, that was intended to be mine, after another and giving it to some other players. To whom? Why? I don't understand. They don't explain.

The more you post, the more you come across as trolling; or, just someone who hates the game in general. Mobs take to long to respawn it's a problem, mobs share tags and respawn faster it's a problem.
Now at the end of your last post you are upset that Blizzard makes something you enjoy available for anyone besides you. Maybe worded badly? No clue, but that's how that sounds. That you are wanting the game to be yours and yours alone.
There's also different dailies in different areas since Wrath, which was further improved upon (from your stance of a clustered daily) by offering a vendor that lets you choose which one you want to do in WoD. Yes, the dailies themselves are the same, but the order you do them, if you do them at all, is up to you. Just because I choose to do the same daily as you doesn't mean I'm going to run into you every time we do the same dailies.
As far as the mob respawning in the same spot 5 times, the game has always been like this, they just sped up the timer. Whether you're waiting 5 mins or 25 seconds, the mob is always there.

[WowIsDead64]

The more you post, the more you come across as trolling; or, just someone who hates the game in general. Mobs take to long to respawn it's a problem, mobs share tags and respawn faster it's a problem.
Now at the end of your last post you are upset that Blizzard makes something you enjoy available for anyone besides you. Maybe worded badly? No clue, but that's how that sounds. That you are wanting the game to be yours and yours alone.
There's also different dailies in different areas since Wrath, which was further improved upon (from your stance of a clustered daily) by offering a vendor that lets you choose which one you want to do in WoD. Yes, the dailies themselves are the same, but the order you do them, if you do them at all, is up to you. Just because I choose to do the same daily as you doesn't mean I'm going to run into you every time we do the same dailies.
As far as the mob respawning in the same spot 5 times, the game has always been like this, they just sped up the timer. Whether you're waiting 5 mins or 25 seconds, the mob is always there.

"All, who don't agree with me - hate the game" strawman argument is so fresh and new. And who is troll here?

[rda]

^^ Accusations in trolling are ignorable, you are hearing them because your opponent is too lazy to read and respond for real - or perhaps what you wrote is reasonable and he would generally agree but since you are for flying and he is against (who knows why he put himself into such a rigid position), he just has to say that you are wrong, so he goes for the simple "oh, you are just trolling" and mostly ignores the subject.

[Deleted]

Ok, so now we have a more realistic scenario of Legion's open world. Example of a quest's Objectives:


-Kill 12 Demons around a Demon portal
-Locate the original Demon Portal and Shut it down
-Kill Master Demon Izual

So if this is a theoretical quest and players have flight enabled, the normal "MO" of players is to kill the 12 demons, mount and fly up in the air, look for the original portal from the air, fly straight to it avoiding any other demons that one would have to go through on a ground mount, click on the portal to shut it down, then mount up and fly high into the air again, and look for and locate Master Demon Izual, fly straight to him, kill him and mount up and fly back to quest giver.

Do you see the issue here? Having flight enabled completely mitigates the threat and obstacle of other demons in the way of the master portal and big boss demon you would have to kill for the quest. If you are grounded, the blizz developers could have some cool stuff happen that you as a player would have to either avoid, or engage to get to where you need to go.

I get that you and your pro-flight groupies will say "oh make interesting flying obstacles" but if there are lets say 100 quests in each zone, and 50 of them are out in the open world (the other 50 being in caves, buildings, etc) they cant just keep making "fel cannon" type obstacles to make it more challenging by flying around. That would annoy the player more than just being grounded would. (see orgrilla fel cannon daily quest in TBC). The point im making, and I think Blizzard has been very clear about is that flight obstacles is not the best game design to deliver interesting and varied quest and open world content.

Not every quest is a "princess castle quest" where you can have an indoor area that you need to kill 12 mobs on your way to the boss to save the princess. Many WoW esque quests are just open world areas that you need to do something in, and flying completely mitigates any danger or any specific quest mechanics that require ground only gameplay.

Think about WoD questing:

Just as a perfect example, questing through Talador is completely different when you can approach all the quests with a flying mount. I mean even some areas are vexing to figure out on a flying mount because you have to be in a specific location for the quest objectives to trigger and continue (ie, on a ground mount because you cant skip everything, you HAVE to move to the area where the quest asks you to go). Another example is in Shadowmoon Valley. The quest where you have to open the door at the shadowmoon burial grounds and it opens up like 5 quests... on a flying mount I ask myself, what is the point of this quest when i can just fly over the fucking locked door?

Bottom line is, pro-flight players just need to get on board with the changes to flight going forward. Expect that flight will be a purely convenience thing added later in each expansion. I personally don't like the fact that it will be added at all, but I have accepted the compromise of keeping flight out of the game until a certain patch / point in the expansion.

The anti-flight players have largely accepted the compromise that Blizzard has struck with flying, why cant the pro-flight players get on board as well?

I understand what you are speaking about, but this is also a flawed example. Even without any obstacles which inhibit flying, you can design a quest flow if you want to. Let the player follow a pattern on the floor which has to be destroyed so the portal can collapse. Set up mobs in a special, logical way (portals and rituals usually have a special setup).

For me, the biggest problem in questing "on the right path" is not flying, but the presence of other players with whom I cannot cooperate spontaneously because of mob tagging. When I arrive at a quest area, and there are no mobs left to kill, then I will go for the portal, because this is the only thing I can do at the moment. Boom, the intended quest flow is already out of the window, and it's not because of flying, but because of other players who interfer with my quest. WHAT NOW?

But the main question is: Why does it matter to you if I fly to the portal to start with Master Demon Izual, then closing the portal and clearing up the remaining demons? In fact, this is the most strategical way to tackle the objective. First, remove the option for reinforcements, then clear up. This is exactly the first couple of quests from the starting area in WoD. You gather intelligence on the portal, and then systematically remove runestones which power the thing / hold Gul'Dan so he can power the portal, and then you fight your way through and start to kill the Iron Horde.

Yes, I am not questing "as intended" when I start with the portal. WHO CARES? A game is not a movie, not a book or a TV serial, where you follow one narrative and have no other way to do so besides skipping scenes / pages. In a game, you have the freedom to have different approaches. I want to keep that. I want to be able to decide how I solve the quest. This is the freedom I give my players if I am gamemastering an RPG campaign. This is what I expect from Blizzard as well in an MMO-RPG.

Edit: I use flying most of the time just to move from quest area to quest area. If the quest tells me that I have to kill a dozen of mobs in addition to the baddy, anyway, then I can as well fight into the camp. It is also easier not to land in the middle of the pack, but start on the outskirts. Yes, sometimes flying shortens my path. But it is usually not important at that point, anyway. The anal fixation of the "proper way of questing" is laughable. If I want the story to be presented to me in a static way, I will go watch Game of Thrones. And we already have tons of scripted, layouted content in the game, which is called dungeons and raids. I expect the open world to be a different experience.

[wing5wong]

i dont think anyone really cares which way you approach the quest in those situations.
Sure its nice if you do it "in order", but its not being done any faster if you kill something else first.

[Deleted]

i dont think anyone really cares which way you approach the quest in those situations.
Sure its nice if you do it "in order", but its not being done any faster if you kill something else first.

Then it should not matter if I fly or not. But for some people it seems to matter where I start my quest and where I finish it, hence the emphasis on no-flying.

There are 2 things that get confused constantly: Flying allows me to move faster. Gear and max level abilities / talents allows me to kill mobs faster and also probably to tackle more enemies at once. Previously, both influences came into effect at max level, and people have had the impression that questing becomes trivial. For a reason which I don't understand, flying was identified as the sole culprit of trivialising questing and outdoor content, but not gear and not the max level abilties / talents. And this is just plain wrong. But the argument is still repeated ad nauseum by no-flyers, as if constant repetition would turn lies into truth. It does not.

If flying was enabled in dungeons and raids, you could skip trash, but it would have no effect on boss fights. You gear and talent distribution is the only thing that matters. You will not magically beat raids if you could fly, because you cannot do anything while flying. Everything else is smoke and mirrors for people who have a hard-on on nostalgia and who seem to think that no-flying would help in keeping people occupied longer.

It does not. My gaming time is limited, and I will take longer to finish content without flying (and also on top of it with scaling mobs, which nullify the effect of gear on outdoor content). But it will not magically make me like content I did not like before. No-flying will not increase the amount of content which I consider worth my time, it will only decrease it. I only did 100 treasures for pathfinder before flying, and not any one more. I only finished the 200 treasures achievement long after I had pathfinder, because I had nothing special to do and was more involved in watching Netflix.

Adding tediousness to the game does not make people interested in content. Better content is the only way, and if the content is good enough, there is no reason to remove flight. Flying is a dream of mankind, to grant it and then to take it away after years for obscure reasons is quite malevolent. I would rather have all the no-flyers have their own server without flight.

[Malackai]

Ok, so now we have a more realistic scenario of Legion's open world. Example of a quest's Objectives:

-Kill 12 Demons around a Demon portal
-Locate the original Demon Portal and Shut it down
-Kill Master Demon Izual

So if this is a theoretical quest and players have flight enabled, the normal "MO" of players is to kill the 12 demons, mount and fly up in the air, look for the original portal from the air, fly straight to it avoiding any other demons that one would have to go through on a ground mount, click on the portal to shut it down, then mount up and fly high into the air again, and look for and locate Master Demon Izual, fly straight to him, kill him and mount up and fly back to quest giver.

Do you see the issue here? Having flight enabled completely mitigates the threat and obstacle of other demons in the way of the master portal and big boss demon you would have to kill for the quest. If you are grounded, the blizz developers could have some cool stuff happen that you as a player would have to either avoid, or engage to get to where you need to go.

And that's exactly one of the main reasons I am starting to like the way FF14 handles quest objectives.

You still have to do the same thing as the Wow one but instead the quest you formulated above would be:
-Locate the original Demon Portal and Shut it down
-Kill Demons around a Demon portal to lure the demon master out and kill him.

Or even:
- Locate mob "engineers" around the demon portal kill them for a keystone to deactivate the demon portal. (Kill x amount mob part)
- Deactivate the demon portal
- Kill mob" guardians"* around the demon portal to lure the demon master out and kill him. (Kill X amount mobs part)
(*guardians spawn after you deactivate the portal and for "immersion" engineers might even flee the the area. (phasing ftw?))

Or:
- Kill some mobs around demon portal
- Demon master spawns kill him after you kill him you loot an "item"
- Deactivate the portal with that item.

You still end up doing the same stuff but there's no point in flying or skipping parts because the quest flows better. I can even think of even more scenarios that has you do the exact same objectives but with also with a better quest flow that makes it pointless to train mobs/ fly during them and still end up doing the quest as intended by the devs.

In FF14 most mobs get spawned during the quest while completing them. Eg. In the example you posted above you would only find the engineers roaming the area around the demon portal and you kill them for them for an item (or to force reinforcement out). After that you would deactivate the demon portal and then the master would spawn (or the some mobs would spawn first and the the master would spawn).

There are even some quests where there might be some rng present for spawing or object completions as well. So one day you end up killing 4 mobs the other day 6.
Eg. I had a quest there I had to free 5 prisoners and the objective stated if they where brainwashed I had to kill them I ended up killing 1 out of 5. But I also had days where I had to kill 4 out of 5 to get the quest completed. There was no point in running away to reset them because the quest already stated I had to kill them if they where lost.

It has always been something that has been nagging me when it came to WoW's way of handling quest objectives especially after i started playing other games as well during my breaks. You knew the moment when you saw that lieutenant, big-ass mob patrolling around that there would be a quest to kill it and you had to double dip that area. eg quest 1 asks you to kill 10 mobs. (in old times run back to quest hub) then asked in quest 2 to go back to the same area and kill the lieutenant/mob. while in the last couple of years they have condensed it a little more its still loose objectives.

I cant even remember how many times I have ended up killing those x amount mobs only to miss the lieutenant/ Demon master (was already pulled, not spawned yet). then having to wait for it to spawn and seeing the whole area re-spawn and having to kill x amount of extra mobs while waiting sometimes even forced to run out of the area and start anew killing additional mobs for nothing.

In the end most of the time I just told myself f*ck it and just ran to the lieutenant/Demon master first killing it then run out of the area and then snipe of the remaining mobs I needed.

Its just weird that in Wow I was always looking for the most effective way to get the quest objectives done while trying to avoid as much mobs as possible (as hunter I could snipe mobs).
While in ff14 I barely have that issue that maybe the mobs density is less excessive there and they do seem to utilized neutral/passive mobs more and mobs aggro differently (some by sight or sounds) so most of the time you don't really end up pulling half continents worth of mobs. Or it is indeed of the quest flow I cant really point it down atm.

I wasn't aware of how the new world quests where going to function. I am sad they really not have changed much on that department .

[Okacz]

I can't believe this thread is still going?! It seems like, whether you view the social and antisocial ups and downs of the way PvE works, or the reasons for removing flying it doesn't change what's done. What's left to discuss? (not trying to be crass, just asking.)

Due to this issue being brought up over and over, Blizzard finally caved in and reintroduced flying in WoD, and promised flying later on in Legion. So something has been won.

[Deleted]

[SNIP] This is exactly the reason blizzard introduced faster respawning mobs and quest nodes.
Standing around in a quest location unable to progress because there are 100 others there also attempting to click nodes leads to people just standing on 1 node waiting for a respawn.
This is not interesting design. This is not good design. This is not enjoyable design

Yeah, imagine if everybody would be contrbuting to the success of a quest area by completing objectives like in the events of GW2...

As usual, they steal some things from another games without regaring the whole package. GW2 has scaling (player to mob level), and no-flying, but also a teleportation network and cooperative PvE gameplay. Legion only steals 2 of 4 aspects, and I don't think that this will be that enjoyable.