Leaked document says 2000 men allegedly assaulted 1200 German women on New Year’s Eve

[lonely zergling]

So, you maintain that nothing will change - except that innocents are punished.
What you missed that the group law can be punish people who are part of a group that assault someone, since it is no longer necessary to prove who did the actual assault - is that really so hard to understand? If Cologne repeats itself - don't you understand that it is more likely that the attackers would be found guilty, since the victim wouldn't have to identify them as a specific attacker?

But more importantly - if you think the new law is bad. Why aren't you - or Prof. Dr. T. Richter promoting a better improvement?

You are seriosly defending laws which would be expected from countries like Nazi Germany or North Korea... disgusting.

[Forogil]

You are seriosly defending laws which would be expected from countries like Nazi Germany or North Korea... disgusting.

Re-read what you replied to, and you will notice that I explained the consequences of the law - I didn't defend it.
You on the other hand were asked to promote a better improvement of the law, and it seems clear you don't have any - and instead you use "association by guilt".

[lonely zergling]

Re-read what you replied to, and you will notice that I explained the consequences of the law - I didn't defend it.
You on the other hand were asked to promote a better improvement of the law, and it seems clear you don't have any - and instead you use "association by guilt".

I wouldnt implement laws that are against the constitution. And I wouldnt rush to make laws just because next year is election year and you want to get votes from feministsupporters and rightwingers. The old laws were good enough mostly, just add punishment for suprise attacks (aka woman didnt have time to consent or not).. problem solved.

[Forogil]

I wouldnt implement laws that are against the constitution. And I wouldnt rush to make laws just because next year is election year and you want to get votes from feministsupporters and rightwingers. The old laws were good enough mostly, just add punishment for suprise attacks (aka woman didnt have time to consent or not).. problem solved.

So, you admit that the old law was insufficient - and your new proposal wouldn't have solved the problem of multiple attackers where it is difficult to determine who did what - which is a problem in many types of crimes, like this one. So, you present no solution - instead of a quick solution.

[Kraenen]

Why? I mean, what does that help? I´d understand if there was a reason for the awareness, but there isn´t any. People commit crimes. Again, do you think height, weight, hair colour are needed informations?

What do you make of the knowledge that person X of country Y with average height, brown hair and blue eyes was robbing a store in the southern part of town? Unless the person is still on the run, you don´t need identifying information.

Because it would help in conversations (and most importantly policy) that involve whether the immigrants are good or not.

If a higher % of robberies were committed by average height, brown haired and blue eyed people from country Y, I'd be interested in knowing why.

[Zephyr Storm]

"They committed crimes and should be punished".
"OMG YOU XENOPHOBE! They're just integrating!"

Liberal logic 101.

[Kallisto]

Liberal logic 101.

No Liberal ever said that.

It's more "X people commited crimes. Punish X but everyone else that did nothing wrong shouldn't be punished." while it seems that some people here are thinking. "Who cares if they did it or not. Punish them all and wash our hands with it." which is absolutely insane. We have innocent till proven guilty for a reason.

[Mayhem]

Because it would help in conversations (and most importantly policy) that involve whether the immigrants are good or not.

Nonsense. You don´t judge all people from one city because of a few that trashed your lawn. Every case should be looked at and if the judges decide they should be deported, so be it. Reading about crimes committed by immigrants while ignoring the crimes committed by locals is not helpful in any way. Even less so if you have the mindset that your government is lying to you anyway and you can´t trust their statistics...

If a higher % of robberies were committed by average height, brown haired and blue eyed people from country Y, I'd be interested in knowing why.

Find me a study that links height, hair/eye colour and country of origin to a certain type of crime across all education levels and social standings.

If you can´t than obviously that information is useless.

[Kraenen]

Nonsense. You don´t judge all people from one city because of a few that trashed your lawn. Every case should be looked at and if the judges decide they should be deported, so be it. Reading about crimes committed by immigrants while ignoring the crimes committed by locals is not helpful in any way. Even less so if you have the mindset that your government is lying to you anyway and you can´t trust their statistics...

So I take it you're against having a border/immigration policy at all?

No one is ignoring. We're looking at why group X has a sig diff in crime to group Y.

The government has only been lying to cover up these crimes which indicates it could be even worse.

Find me a study that links height, hair/eye colour and country of origin to a certain type of crime across all education levels and social standings.

If you can´t than obviously that information is useless.

Not really my case to make. I just put forward that further investigation is warranted and can only be done if we keep these stats.

[Slant]

What annoys me more than these acts, is that people try to cover them up to prevent racial tensions from rising...

What annoys me is how much people like you relish the thought of racial tensions rising.

The justice system will hopefully clean up this mess. Investigative journalism makes a big win for a change. Alas, it'll still be painted as the media working with the Government to gloss this over. Crazies will be crazies.

[Mayhem]

So I take it you're against having a border/immigration policy at all?

How did you come to that conclusion?

No one is ignoring. We're looking at why group X has a sig diff in crime to group Y.

The government has only been lying to cover up these crimes which indicates it could be even worse.

No, you´re not looking at the WHY you´re looking at the present state and form an oppinion about all of them. That makes no sense. The government hasn´t been lying. Not reporting stuff because it´s useless information isn´t lying. By your logic if the police don´t tell you everything about a perpetrator they are lying to you.

Not really my case to make. I just put forward that further investigation is warranted and can only be done if we keep these stats.

Warranted because you say so? We keep these stats, we just don´t report it to everyone on the streets.

[Kraenen]

How did you come to that conclusion?

Why would you discern between any immigrants?

No, you´re not looking at the WHY you´re looking at the present state and form an oppinion about all of them. That makes no sense. The government hasn´t been lying. Not reporting stuff because it´s useless information isn´t lying. By your logic if the police don´t tell you everything about a perpetrator they are lying to you.

Sorry when did I say 'lie'?

Warranted because you say so? We keep these stats, we just don´t report it to everyone on the streets.

It's warranted because there's a sig diff in two groups.

As long as policy is responding to the data and the data isn't being shaped by politics, at least we have that. But even then, the public influences policy and when they think migrants are the same as natives, they are acting on either a falsehood or information they don't have.

[Mayhem]

Why would you discern between any immigrants?

What are you talking about?

Sorry when did I say 'lie'?

The government has only been lying to cover up these crimes which indicates it could be even worse.

Short term memory loss?

It's warranted because there's a sig diff in two groups.

And unless you can SHOW that it´s because of their country of origin and not the same factors that cause locals to commit crimes you have nothing to back up your claim.

As long as policy is responding to the data and the data isn't being shaped by politics, at least we have that. But even then, the public influences policy and when they think migrants are the same as natives, they are acting on either a falsehood or information they don't have.

The information is out there, it´s been published in anual reports. People however chose to ignore them or state they´re made up because immigrants just have to be bad people.

[Kraenen]

What are you talking about?

Discerning between groups of immigrants or individuals. Are you against or for it? If you're against it I just want to know exactly why you are in favor of borders to begin with.

Short term memory loss?

My bad.

And unless you can SHOW that it´s because of their country of origin and not the same factors that cause locals to commit crimes you have nothing to back up your claim.

The information is out there, it´s been published in anual reports. People however chose to ignore them or state they´re made up because immigrants just have to be bad people.

Which is why it's all too coincidental the groups which have higher crimes come from a similar group of countries. Like I said earlier, let's take more data on these people. Get to know them and why they commit more crime, and why there is gang rape like never seen before.

Most of which indicate higher rates of crime and problems among specific groups of immigrants. Don't resort to "not all immigrants" because you'd be mischaracterizing.


I'm more in favor of preventative measures than whatever the tradeoff is otherwise (taking in migrants for higher crime rate)

[Deleted]

You don´t need to know their nationality for that, now do you?

When certain nationalities are 6-13 times overrepresented in exactly these kind of crime stats, yes you sort of do.

Otherwise you end up with useless shit statistics like they have in Sweden.

[Mayhem]

Discerning between groups of immigrants or individuals. Are you against or for it? If you're against it I just want to know exactly why you are in favor of borders to begin with.

What has one thing to do with the other? Anyway, i´m against discerning between people based on nonsense. Now where is the connection to borders?

Which is why it's all too coincidental the groups which have higher crimes come from a similar group of countries. Like I said earlier, let's take more data on these people. Get to know them and why they commit more crime, and why there is gang rape like never seen before.

Go on, do so, come back if you have something to show for, until then stop the baseless accusations.

Most of which indicate higher rates of crime and problems among specific groups of immigrants. Don't resort to "not all immigrants" because you'd be mischaracterizing.

Indication is not enough to condemn a group of people.

So, since the information should be available, do the work, prove a connection between country of origin and crime rates, right now you´re spouting propaganda.

[Deleted]

Yeah and who with half a working mind is surprised by any of this?

You invite millions of people from the middle east (mysteriously 80%+ of them are young men). Fleeing from the results of their society; religious zealots combined with a nihilistic mindset. Oh and small fact: women have are inferior in their culture. To the extend they have to walk around covered in a bedsheet with a miniscule gauze we wouldnt use for our rabbitcage to look through.

So yeah, no education no preperation, these people are having a huge culture shock. Combine that with being taught both explicitly (from the qu'ran) and implicitly by how men treat women in the middle east that women have to listen or be punished and you got a perfect shit-storm.

That is just cause and effect, the fact the ruling party downright refuses to reckognise this is the real problem though. Because as soon as you scruitinize immigrants in any way you're a xenophobic islamophobe racist, terms that are quickly starting to lose all meaning because of these self-victimisers that are in reality the real problem.

[Mayhem]

When certain nationalities are 6-13 times overrepresented in exactly these kind of crime stats, yes you sort of do.

Otherwise you end up with useless shit statistics like they have in Sweden.

Hi, please read up befor posting, your answer made no sense. How is you private person knowing their nationality going to impact their punishment?

[Kraenen]

What has one thing to do with the other? Anyway, i´m against discerning between people based on nonsense. Now where is the connection to borders?

So you wouldn't discern between anyone based on likelihood to commit crime?

Indication is not enough to condemn a group of people.

So, since the information should be available, do the work, prove a connection between country of origin and crime rates, right now you´re spouting propaganda.

No one is condemning a whole group of people. You're just exaggerating for emotional effect.

Rofl, what propaganda? It's well documented... maybe do some research?

- - - Updated - - -

Hi, please read up befor posting, your answer made no sense. How is you private person knowing their nationality going to impact their punishment?

See again, what punishment? It would help if you didn't fabricate scenarios to take down your opponents.

[Keosen]

What did they expect? Their culture is different than ours.

Indeed German people are not committing crimes.