Players with PVP honor talents are smashing players without PVP honor talents

[wing5wong]

something else to do when you have some free time

This part here is the problem. You CANT do it in your free time, for as long as you pursue higher rated bgs.

[Alydael]

This part here is the problem. You CANT do it in your free time, for as long as you pursue higher rated bgs.

Still, the rewards are only cosmetic. I am sure if you want them, you will be able to find some time to do it.

[wing5wong]

Still, the rewards are only cosmetic. I am sure if you want them, you will be able to find some time to do it.

Yes of course il find time. But something being purely cosmetic doesn't mean something couldn't be done to improve this system.
Just looking to improve access to it.

[Cracked]

Ye, so I just tried this as a fire mage. My 110 fire mage has 19 traits in the artifact and had honor level 5 (from some world quest). I queued into a BG, got Kotmogu, everyone else was from the PvP Beta Testing Realm, which means full traits and full honor ranks. You know what? I topped dmg across the bg, and honorable kills in my team.

It certainly didn't feel like the other players were shitting all over me like they would on live servers now if I came in with greens. I'm not denying that it was an added challenge, but it was FINE.

[Taeldorian]

Exactly the point.
Prestiging restricts you severely in terms of which groups you can join.
Imagine this: "Oh sorry you chose to raid highmaul this tier. The rest of the guild chose to do brf. "


For random rbgs it doesn't matter. For higher rated you are either excluded or required to either never prestige, or prestige grind early season and forgo rating from higher groups. Prestiging late is an option if you already have hero/guardian, but if you are pushing for those you can't prestige when doing your push.

Personally I will just prestige late. But I would like to be able to work on both simultaneously (as we can with every other form of prog right now).

Why not just prestige early? Theres no need to rush glad in the first 15 days of launch. Might as well go through the honor talent system, hit cap, prestige and then go again.

I get what youre saying for the most part, but why are you in such a rush to get glad? The season will still be there a month or two into the expac. I mean, hitting prestige twice wouldnt even take that long, so whats the rush? I plan on prestiging early and then pushing glad later on. Either way works.

I guess you could also prestige when theres a pause between seasons. Thats what I might do actually.

[wing5wong]

Why not just prestige early? Theres no need to rush glad in the first 15 days of launch. Might as well go through the honor talent system, hit cap, prestige and then go again.

I get what youre saying for the most part, but why are you in such a rush to get glad? The season will still be there a month or two into the expac. I mean, hitting prestige twice wouldnt even take that long, so whats the rush? I plan on prestiging early and then pushing glad later on. Either way works.

I guess you could also prestige when theres a pause between seasons. Thats what I might do actually.

Not so much a rush, just i personally saw this as an opportunity to have something to progress on throughout a season.
Something to do outside of the competitive aspect, and an actual reason to hit the BGs between raiding and rated - without having to take awkward 1 week breaks if you try do it in the mid of a season.
I Prefer to do the rated ASAP for the weapon - although i guess that changes this expac, so doing it early or late makes little difference (as long as you have enough time to grind at the end)

[Snegovik]

Why not just prestige early? Theres no need to rush glad in the first 15 days of launch. Might as well go through the honor talent system, hit cap, prestige and then go again.

I get what youre saying for the most part, but why are you in such a rush to get glad? The season will still be there a month or two into the expac. I mean, hitting prestige twice wouldnt even take that long, so whats the rush? I plan on prestiging early and then pushing glad later on. Either way works.

I guess you could also prestige when theres a pause between seasons. Thats what I might do actually.

Unless your spec is in a good state and it will be nerfed hard within 2-3 weeks aka Ret WOD s1 =) then yes u need to push as high as you can within 1st 2-3 weeks before that nerf bat hits u in ur kneecaps

[Mafic]

It doesn't matter. Criticizing is ok but arguments should be valid. Just because he worked on X or Z shouldn't matter in the long run because that is still many more projects than your average mmo-c poster. Instead focus on why his decisions are bad. They aren't bad because he worked on transformers. I'm not defending him. I didn't like a lot of stuff but lets all keep arguments valid and exactly point why X is bad idea instead of pointing fingers towards his previous games.



Yes it does look like that sometimes but there are better, more valid arguments to back it up than listing games he's worked on and saying it's because of that.

You are trolling because this thread is full of arguments why this system is bad.

[Deleted]

You are trolling because this thread is full of arguments why this system is bad.

Please read my post before commenting. I won't even bother explaining it to you before that.

[Deleted]

If you bother reading what I write instead of who I quote you will see that I give pretty clear explanation of what I think he does wrong with the game. Also its unfair to compare the average mmo-c poster with Holinka. Holinka gets paid by the average mmo-c poster and show he can and will be scrutinized by us. He also cant operate in a vacuum ignoring the players.

Its a good lesson learned that when you ignore player feedback you end up having Ashran as your flagship product.

No, it's actually perfectly fine to compare average mmo-c poster with Holinka when the poster in question acts as if he knows better and would make for a better designer. Then by all means have said poster apply and work for blizz. Way too many armchair experts on the Internet.

Using stupid arguments like "he worked on transformers" is stupid. Using good arguments about what and why certain mechanic is bad is valid and I have no issue with that.

Yes, Ashran was bad but at least they tried to do something instead of totally ignoring people who wanted some sort of world pvp.

Blizz isn't ignoring player. With so many players and many different opinions you simply cannot do everything everyone wants especially conflicting "wants".

That and the fact that players who are unsatisfied are always the loudest community because you rarely see topic "x is great". If people like something they rarely talk about it, unlike when they dislike something.

PS

YOU replied to my post which was aimed at Krieger. then you told me not to lawyer up and then I still spoke about issue I had with Krieger to which you replied. So what does this have anything to do with your explanation and arguments what he does right/wrong? It was never about you to begin with but about Krieger, his attitude and "arguments".

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A few days where you cant play another type of rated pvp.
Then a few days more.
Then a few more days.

Ok now you can do rated.

It's optional. If it bothers you then don't do it. Hit 50 once and be done with it. You are not forced to do anything and not obliged to have everything.

[Deleted]

Honor talents don't even take long to get anyways.

Neither does current pvp gear -_-

Frontlines: Fuel of War before coming to Blizzard.

I liked this game

[Alydael]

Yes of course il find time. But something being purely cosmetic doesn't mean something couldn't be done to improve this system.
Just looking to improve access to it.

I really think the system is more aimed at the players that don't run ranked pvp. Players that run ranked pvp have the season and ratings to occupy them. Since they took gear out of the equation, they needed some sort of reward to fill the whole for the more casual type players (since there will not be honor or valor sets).

[Reapocalypse]

I think its worth mentioning that you will probably have atleast 2 weeks before the first season starts, thats already Level 50 honorlevel Prestige 1 without even having the option to play rated.

Prestige Cap gets increased with each season, so we have 2 more weeks before the Cap gets increased, so you can do 3 out of 4 possible Prestige Levels without having to "sacrifice" 1 single rated game, i honestly believe that this makes the "sacrifice" almost worthless and kinda useless in the first place, either way i dont see much of a problem for rated Players to also get these rewards.

To note, this example only makes sense if you "spam" these Battlegrounds 5 days a week and if the Honor needed stays the same.

[Rehija]

I think its worth mentioning that you will probably have atleast 2 weeks before the first season starts

The first Raid Tier starts 2 Months after legion starts and so does the PvP season.

[Deleted]

Dude you can kiss Holinka's behind all you want but don't do it in my presence ok? I play the game 12 years and so do thousands of others. We know our classes we know our game and it also so happens that we have our own jobs. That doesn't make us "armchair experts" and unless you are playing wow while standing up I would suggest that you pick your lines more carefully.

It is objectively true that Holinka has put a giant DICK in the game's pvp. His changes were ALWAYS biased in favor of casters (especially mages) he was ALWAYS an anti-rogue person and screwed the rogue class in every way possible while holding back all the positive changes as much as he could and he is the designer of the biggest pile of failed pixels which is Ashran.

Now you can call me whatever names you want and you can pretend everything is fine and we don't know better but at the end of the day its the majority of people vs one man who so happens to have the power in his hands. Obviously the game is not a democracy but guess what, dissappointed players tend to leave the game and then suddenly your beloved Holinka ends up with a lot of explaining to do to the remaining playerbase.

Accountability exists even for Holinka no matter how many fanbois push positive crap in his favor in the forums.

Also I reply to a public thread which means I can jump into any comment to back it or bash it. Thats how forums work or you didn't even know that?

So I will say it again stop defending the guy who is responsible for the deterioration of my beloved game.

Are you stupid?

Dude like WTF?! I only replied to the part where you said i lawyered up where I was talking to the dude giving arguments "because he worked on transformers" I didn't respond to rest of your post (your actual arguments) because 1) i actually fucking think the same so why write anything else 2) they werent the subject i talked about anyways and to which YOU replied to me

12 years? So do I. What about it?


I will write this so you can actually understand: I do not defend holinka! Get that into your goddamned head. I simply advocate valid arguments (like the ones you gave) and not the ones Krieger posted. Is is so goddamn hard to understand? I don't even know WTF you are getting at.

Find me a single, SINGLE post where I defend Holinka's decision. If you can't I await your apologies.

So stop implying I defend holinka.

PS
You can't say about majority vs 1 man because you have no data to know what majority thinks because it's complainers who are alwasy the most vocal. People fine with it won't come to the forum just to pat holinka on the back :P

[Turtlewithnoshell]

And why would a PVE player want to do PVP if they have to grind out honor talents?

Then why would the PVE player need to worry about being smashed by PVP talents?

[Deleted]

So guy says: (in bold)


Quote Originally Posted by Krieger View Post
Is this a surprise to you? This guy has been butchering WoW PvP for the past four, almost five years and people are just now realizing it... This guy has no business working on WoW considering he worked on Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, Homefront, and Frontlines: Fuel of War before coming to Blizzard. I mean seriously, what were they thinking putting this clown in charge????

Source: http://wow.gamepedia.com/Brian_Holinka


AND YOU REPLY (in quote)




So I basically say again: STOP BEING HOLINKA'S LAWYER. You can go as berserk as you like but its entirely STUPID to go up against someone and asking them for their credentials for saying Holinka butchered pvp. You can take the convo to transformers or whatever to save your butt but in reality you are just a holinka fanboy trying to defend him. We don't need "credentials" to realize the obvious. Holinka destroyed wow pvp plain and simple. Except for his beloved mages.

And I repeat my question.

Where did I defend his decisions? Did I say what he did was good? No. Nowhere did I say such a thing (nor do I think so).

My issue was with WHAT sort of argument was used "This guy has no business working on WoW considering he worked on Transformers: Fall of Cybertron, Homefront, and Frontlines: Fuel of War"

This is NOT a valid argument.

But yours were so I didn't complain about yours. For example if he fucked up ashran because of X then he messed it because of that, not because he worked on goddamned transformers. The fact you call me Holinka's fanboy where I don't give a flying F about the guy is hilarious btw. You're grasping at straws and complaining about something that wasn't an issue from the start. You foam at mouth and rage and it clouds your mind at what I was actually saying dude.

Pointing out someone used terrible, retarded argument that had nothing to do with the issue is not defending someone's decisions.

[Deleted]

We essentially say the same thing man so no reason to argue peace and sorry if you felt offended. We come a big strong with arguments but we all want the good of the game we play.

Yes we were saying the same goddamn thing that's why I got pissed because you jumped at me for no reason!

:P

Let's bury the axe.

[Reapocalypse]

The first Raid Tier starts 2 Months after legion starts and so does the PvP season.

Thank you very much, was not sure how long it was between Release and Season start, with that (and assuming we can start leveling once we hit 110) you can have maximum Prestige for the first Season without having to "sacrifice" anything theoretically.

[wing5wong]

It's optional. If it bothers you then don't do it. Hit 50 once and be done with it. You are not forced to do anything and not obliged to have everything.

Everything in the game is optional. Its not a good argument.
I play every aspect of the game. I want to put time into doing all of it.

Im not asking for it to be easy or less time consuming at all, its a valid concern when you can not do something at all due to the effect of another aspect of the game
This is not about feeling 'entitled' to everything.

- - - Updated - - -

I think its worth mentioning that you will probably have atleast 2 weeks before the first season starts, thats already Level 50 honorlevel Prestige 1 without even having the option to play rated.

Prestige Cap gets increased with each season, so we have 2 more weeks before the Cap gets increased, so you can do 3 out of 4 possible Prestige Levels without having to "sacrifice" 1 single rated game, i honestly believe that this makes the "sacrifice" almost worthless and kinda useless in the first place, either way i dont see much of a problem for rated Players to also get these rewards.

To note, this example only makes sense if you "spam" these Battlegrounds 5 days a week and if the Honor needed stays the same.

Yep, as long as you have the time to ensure you get these wins constantly over the final weeks its ok. but its a gamble.

- - - Updated - - -

The first Raid Tier starts 2 Months after legion starts and so does the PvP season.

2 months really? im fairly certain it starts unlocking 2 weeks in with normal/heroic and mythic the week after.
Dont remember if season started with mythic or regular unlock though