Druids and Demon Hunters should have been males only from the start

[Deleted]

lore wise (before they basically allowed everyone to be everyone) sentinels (females) are actually more agile than males and they are the fighter caste.

Female orcs are more agile than males, same with humans (males in wow are too bulky) female gnomes and male gnomes are basically the same lol, lore wise nelf females agility > males, tauren females more agile than males, forsaken basically are all crumbling.

Rarity of such women doesn't matter. The only thing matters there are such women and thus it's perfectly possible.

In your dimension I bet there is Patriarchy and women are only cleaning and cooking. Anyways, now I am really done with you. I hate stupidity.

There are many examples in the animal world where females are larger and stronger than males. Could be the same for the Night Elves.

[Wildmoon]

They didn't "bend" the lore, it adapted and changed as naturally as any story does. Yes, the change was probably inspired by the fact that they didn't want to make certain classes for certain races gender-locked, but the lore is theirs to change. Blizzard made everything up, they wrote everything themselves - they are allowed to change it, and they did.

This isn't a discussion about if lore can be changed or not. Everyone knows that it can be. The point is if the change is neccessary which is something everyone will have his/her opinion.

To me I don't think it's neccessary. I think restrictive race/class combo adds more flavor to the game. That's why I like Blizzard's decision on DH.

[Deleted]

"Furthermore, there is no male that has ever existed in the real world that could do what the player characters in wow do. Imagine trying to "tank" a monster like Mannoroth in the real world. His glaive is like 10 times bigger than your body. He could probably crack open a tank like a fortune cookie, let alone a man in metal. Even if you had magic armor and a magic shield that could stand up to his attacks, the sheer kinetic force of a single thrust of his glaive would shatter all your bones and rupture your organs and it would pitch you back like 40 feet. You'd be dead on impact. How is that any more or less realistic if it's a man or a woman standing up to such a monstrosity? Furthermore, concerning size and muscle mass, the difference between male tauren and orcs is way bigger than the physical difference between male and female humans. Should male orcs do like 12x the damage of human males in melee combat?"

This right there. It's a fantasy game, nothing makes sense if compared to our own world. Pretty much all the bosses we face should destroy us just by sneezing. In that context it doesn't matter if a female warrior can be as strong as a male one. Yeah it does look kinda funny to see a tiny human female tanking a boss like Mannoroth but if we want to go by realism, a human male would have no chance tanking it either.

It really does seem that you try to hide your misogyny with this stupid thread.

Not only a tiny human female, but a tiny gnome as a tank! Hilarious!

WoW has nothing to do with being realistic.

[Deleted]

Not to partake much in this obvious troll thread, but I'm rather curious where you got those percentile rates from. I googled around, but found no such statistics. Care to give me a link?

Biologically speaking most men are stronger than most women just due to how each body is built, how our metabolism works and so on.

Pound per pound of muscle men are stronger and have more of it. And the difference is quite pronounced.

I'm by no means a prized physical example of human masculinity (I'm ok), but I don't really know any women who would be my match in physical strength. Endurance and agility absolutely, but simple strenght no. And I do know quite a few girls who spend an average of 1.5 hours a day in the gym. Unholy amounts of excercise would be required to offset the simple 10 inch height and 60-70lbs mass difference.

Or am I misunderstanding something and you are talking about some size-strenght ratio thing?

Biologically men are in fact superior when it comes to physical things but like I said I never compared to peak form vs peak form of female and male. If both train a lot than differences do get bigger in certain areas.

I am talking about your average woman vs average man. It was I believe on discovery channel a couple of years back.


I absolutely don't see why female wouldn't be able to be an agile fighter when they actually have better rhytmic and muscular coordination than men (not power mind you altough they can closely match men's lower body strength and cannot match upper body strength)

[Wildmoon]

There are many examples in the animal world where females are larger and stronger than males. Could be the same for the Night Elves.

Male Night Elves are larger than female.

[Deleted]

Going by that NightElf priests would have to be female only.

[Deleted]

If you think in the history of the world, a woman has never beaten a man in single combat, you're delusional.

Also, even if what you said was 100% true, that does not in any way discredit or debunk the rest of my post. I'd especially like you to answer how it's any more or less realistic for a male or female to be able to block/parry a hit from Mannoroth than the inverse. You could literally take the strongest man ever and the strongest woman ever, combine their strength, multiply it by 3, and they'd still basically turn to goo as soon as that glaive touches their shield. It'd literally be like trying to block a fucking semi truck coming at you at speed.

I'm sure that many women shot men and some even managed to stab and kill men because of festering wounds and such. Probably also many of lucky hits. I imagine that there were women who beat extremelly weaker, sickly men.

well, one easy way to explain it is simply to imagine that gear, training amplifies the natural strength of females, that is how they can defend against Mannoroth

lore wise (before they basically allowed everyone to be everyone) sentinels (females) are actually more agile than males and they are the fighter caste.

Female orcs are more agile than males, same with humans (males in wow are too bulky) female gnomes and male gnomes are basically the same lol, lore wise nelf females agility > males, tauren females more agile than males, forsaken basically are all crumbling.

Rarity of such women doesn't matter. The only thing matters there are such women and thus it's perfectly possible.

In your dimension I bet there is Patriarchy and women are only cleaning and cooking. Anyways, now I am really done with you. I hate stupidity.

No, they were simply the only ones left to defend their homeland.

how? bulky does not mean not agile. you are making up lore onthe fly.

nope

sure thing, Patriarchy works and thanks to it we have got the best civilisations, but that it is not the subject of this thread. well, I can't say that I hate oddwordly nonsense, because it is funny, but I suggest that you should limit it in the future.

[Wildmoon]

Going by that NightElf priests would have to be female only.

That would be good.

[Deleted]

This isn't a discussion about if lore can be changed or not. Everyone knows that it can be. The point is if the change is neccessary which is something everyone will have his/her opinion.

To me I don't think it's neccessary. I think restrictive race/class combo adds more flavor to the game. That's why I like Blizzard's decision on DH.

Dungeons & Dragons mostly lives without such restrictions. Yes, there are some special classes / prestige classes which only suit special races, but you can play either of the basic classes with any race or gender. DH is akin to a prestige class in WoW, so the limitation of races fits in this case. But having classes being limited to a gender does not fit to every setting.

It would fit to a Game of Thrones world, where fighting women like Brienne of Tarth or Arya are a great exception to the rule, but you would have to be careful, or you will end up with 99% of male characters in a game, which is possibly a bit boring - especially with all male gamers who play female characters because they "don't want to look at a guy's ass all the time." XD

[Lochton]

Now that I think about WoW I think that gameplay reasons should have not butchered sex oriented classes. Druids should be male only for night elves and so should be Demon Hunters. Things can not be changed now but I would prefer Blizzard to rely more on sexual dimorphism and cultures of races.

That being said it is not only D and DH issue only, there are other classes too.

Yeah, no. That is on first a stupid idea, but also volatile. As well, in the lore, there's both female and male of druids, and Demon Hunters have always been announced without general point of what gender. So, I don't see why that should have been limited in the first place.

[Jngizu]

Biologically men are in fact superior when it comes to physical things but like I said I never compared to peak form vs peak form of female and male. If both train a lot than differences do get bigger in certain areas.

I am talking about your average woman vs average man. It was I believe on discovery channel a couple of years back.


I absolutely don't see why female wouldn't be able to be an agile fighter when they actually have better rhytmic and muscular coordination than men (not power mind you altough they can closely match men's lower body strength and cannot match upper body strength)

I do agree that some women are way stronger than most men but your numbers really feel off. I'm only talking strength-wise here of course. I legit think your average man will be stronger than your average woman in (at least) 90% of cases. But none of this is relevant to the WoW universe anyway which is why this thread is pointless and a bad attempt at trolling.

[OrcsRLame]

I'm sure that many women shot men and some even managed to stab and kill men because of festering wounds and such. Probably also many of lucky hits. I imagine that there were women who beat extremelly weaker, sickly men.

well, one easy way to explain it is simply to imagine that gear, training amplifies the natural strength of females, that is how they can defend against Mannoroth

No, they were simply the only ones left to defend their homeland.

how? bulky does not mean not agile. you are making up lore onthe fly.

nope

sure thing, Patriarchy works and thanks to it we have got the best civilisations, but that it is not the subject of this thread. well, I can't say that I hate oddwordly nonsense, because it is funny, but I suggest that you should limit it in the future.

Responding to the bolded, I'm genuinely unsure if you think that's a counterpoint to what I've said, or if you're agreeing with me. Either way, it doesn't make any more or less sense for a male to be able to tank Mannoroth. Even a male orc should die in one hit if we're seriously trying to apply real world physics to wow to determine what does and doesn't make sense.

[Wildmoon]

Dungeons & Dragons mostly lives without such restrictions. Yes, there are some special classes / prestige classes which only suit special races, but you can play either of the basic classes with any race or gender. DH is akin to a prestige class in WoW, so the limitation of races fits in this case. But having classes being limited to a gender does not fit to every setting.

It would fit to a Game of Thrones world, where fighting women like Brienne of Tarth or Arya are a great exception to the rule, but you would have to be careful, or you will end up with 99% of male characters in a game, which is possibly a bit boring - especially with all male gamers who play female characters because they "don't want to look at a guy's ass all the time." XD

Limiting druid to male Night Elf does fit. In fact giving it to female does not fit because it was established lore that the order was male only.

I also don't see how DH is different from druid. They are both classes. There are very generic and broad classes like warrior,hunter,rogue which find itself in any culture and race but something like druid,shaman,mage,paladin,etc are very specific and culture based.

[Deleted]

Male Night Elves are larger than female.

It doesn't have much to do with size, the same as brain size doesn't mean much.

It's about muscle fibers quality. Blizz could come out and say that fem nelves muscle fibers are more dense and stronger and it would basically equal to them being stronger even though smaller.

- - - Updated - - -

Limiting druid to male Night Elf does fit. In fact giving it to female does not fit because it was established lore that the order was male only.

and later lore established they've changed their ways. Way to be selective about lore. You may not like it but it doesn't matter. That's how it is now.

[Deleted]

You should not underestimate the importance of training and experience. Of course, men are usually better off because they are in the average larger and heavier than women and possibly also have a slightly greater reach. But if you know how to compensate for your weaknesses due to training and you know how to use your body and your weapons to the best, then gender should not be not that important.

Israel for example, has plenty of female soldiers, and there are more than enough female police officers out there. There are so few recorded examples of warrior women in history because they usually were defending their home and children, not going out to fight battles like male soldiers did. Also, in patriarchalic societies many men are expendable, since the patriarch wants to have all women to himself to ensure his legacy of offspring. These expandable men are sent out to fight, so their aggressiveness is directed at the enemies of the patriarch, not agains the patriarch himself. The latest Mad Max movie shows this in a brilliant, though exaggerated fashion.

If I remember correctly mixed units in USA suffered far more casualties. Also Israel does not deploy female units in dangerous regions, they are usually stationing at safe borders(and these are the only 2 female combat batallions); their roles are vastly exaggerated. Just because you put woman in uniform, you won't make a warrior out of her.

It is like with sport, the best australian football team lost to some younglings, and many other examples from tennis and such.

[Irian]

TERA is crap for doing this bullshit.

This is exactly the game I was thinking about when I said that, but god knows eastern and especially Korean developers love pulling this. Every time I see it, my mind immediately screams "nope" and I walk away from a game because of it, especially when there's little to no lore justification for the gender lock in the game's universe (coughcough black desert, TERA).

It serves no purpose other than to infuriate players, so why would it be suggested to be put into WoW?

[Deleted]

You're applying real world equivalence to a fantasy world in order to further your own sexist bias. The Toby picture is fitting.

I just multiply the potential of men x by magic. Melee fighters males would be on top.

[Wildmoon]

and later lore established they've changed their ways. Way to be selective about lore. You may not like it but it doesn't matter. That's how it is now.

You entirely missed the point. We are discussing if they should have changed it. What's with "this is how it is, you should not discuss about it" attitude?

[Deleted]

If I remember correctly mixed units in USA suffered far more casualties. Also Israel does not deploy female units in dangerous regions, they are usually stationing at safe borders(and these are the only 2 female combat batallions); their roles are vastly exaggerated. Just because you put woman in uniform, you won't make a warrior out of her.

It is like with sport, the best australian football team lost to some younglings, and many other examples from tennis and such.

How can you be so blind roflmao.

Serena Williams will still own 95% males in tennis. Just because Roger Federer could perhaps beat her doesn't mean she is bad and shouldn't play tennis anymore.

This here is your problem. You don't have to be THE BEST to be good or very good at something. You can still be better than most. The best chefs are males but it doesn't mean that female chefs make shitty food.

You don't have to be male to be great sniper for example. Still I can bet you won;t understand a dime out of my post and I've wasted time, oh well.


PS

I am pretty sure Tauren female is stronger than human male btw. So tauren female warrior vs human male warrior. Following your logic the stronger would always win (that's retarded btw, strength matters less when you can kill in 1 hit regardless due to weapon being sharp if you hit artery for example)

[OrcsRLame]

I just multiply the potential of men x by magic. Melee fighters males would be on top.

But if you're doing that then shouldn't your standard be male orcs x magic or male tauren x magic? The difference in muscle mass between a male orc and a male human is vastly, ludicrously bigger than the difference between male and female humans. If male and female humans should not be equal in strength in wow, then I see no reason why male humans and orcs should be either.

I say this as the most die hard Alliance fanboy ever, btw.