[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[Xiaojin]

I wouldn't be surprised if Remorseless Winter found its way into our ST rotation. It basically fills the role of DnD/Defile now, and it interacts with a number of talents/legendaries that will make it a ST gain regardless. While I suppose they could nerf it so that in the specific ST, no Gathering Storm, no legendaries situation it is a dps loss, this seems unnecessary. (Not to mention mastery scaling). You will probably be pressing this button on CD.

I specifically added the part "before any further bonuses" because there are plenty on both sides. For example stuff that improves Obliterate or Howling Blast/Rime:
- Freezing Fog (talent)
- Murderous Efficiency (talent)
- Icecap (talent)
- Obliteration (talent)
- Nothing but the Boots (artifact trait)
- Blast Radius (artifact trait)
- Ambidexterity (artifact trait; might've been already included in Maxweii's numbers, I don't know what traits he has unlocked)
- Over-Powered (artifact trait)
- both T19 set bonuses
- Koltira's Newfound Will (legendary item)

I can totally see that depending on what talents you choose (or put another way: what combination provides the highest DPS) and what gear you have, Remorseless Winter might be included in the ST rotation. But TBH I'm rather skeptical that it actually will be despite its damage being so close to Obliterate. My guess is that all the small bonuses to Obliterate and Howling Blast you get from your artifact combined with probably taking at least one talent that improves either, Obliterate will come out on top for ST despite costing two runes. But I agree, we'll know more once we have sims. I mostly wanted to add that there is much more to Obliterate than just its pure damage. Rime being the most obvious effect.

As a sidenote: I find the comparison to DnD/Defile rather weak. If I'm not mistaken, you don't use DnD against a single target on Live. Also, unholy runes are pretty weak for dual-wielding frost DKs anyway so anything that uses them and provides decent damage for that GCD is welcome (i.e., Defile).

[Maxweii]

As a sidenote: I find the comparison to DnD/Defile rather weak. If I'm not mistaken, you don't use DnD against a single target on Live. Also, unholy runes are pretty weak for dual-wielding frost DKs anyway so anything that uses them and provides decent damage for that GCD is welcome (i.e., Defile).

That was likely more historically speaking, as we have had DnD used in single target for a LONG time, and that only recently changed. It was compared to that basically because DnD was a glorified dot, which is essentially what RW is. Every 20 seconds you get a 8 second duration dot pretty much.

[Vicus]

The Bonereaper's Hook
Item Level 110
Binds when picked up
Unique
Classes: Death Knight
Use: Unlocks the Bone Reaper appearance for Apocalypse.
"Fed by the steady settling energy of Icecrown Citadel, this crude and brutal weapon could easily be fashioned into an instrument of death."


It's going to come from something related to ICC. BUT WHERE!?

The hints, if there is one, in the flavor text seems like it is a very loose connection; if you use the found skins for other specs as an example. For instance:

Blood DK flavor text on the item:
"A failed experiment in magically stealing the power from the long dead. The resulting mass twists and undulates unsettlingly."
That somehow means you need to get the ""Chest at the end of the Withered Army Training scenario in Suramar(a repeatable scenario that costs local currency)"??

Assassination Rogue flavor text:
"Secrets of a long-dead assassin known only as "The Bonebreaker." It's rumored that she took up the habit of breaking the leg bones of her slain victims after one of them came back from the dead to seek revenge."
That somehow directs you to kill any rare in the Dalaran sewers, with shit drop rate? On my rogue, I killed over 100 of them and got nada, but the drop has been verified by numerous people.

Prot Pally flavor text:
"When Exarch Kelios fell, the remaining hope of holding the temple faded away. The Legion had won. The only peace they would find now was in the thought of those few who had escaped, but the Legion would soon take that from them as well."
From the same place as the Blood DK, and the WW Monk

All the skins so far look to be from Legion as well.


Source lists:
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...uw&sh=8e1bddaa
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...74925?page=1#1

[Grimskull22]

So..rip frost? those nerfs to it and buffs to unholy are kinda idiotic. where's the issue with keeping them on the same level?

[Dreglorg]

The big RIP is blood

[Bisque]

Dam blizz is really hammering the freezing fog talent, from 50 or 40% originally to now 25%, heh it begs the question, will it get lowered again in the future?

[Senel]

Dam blizz is really hammering the freezing fog talent, from 50 or 40% originally to now 25%, heh it begs the question, will it get lowered again in the future?

It was very overpowered at 50%, no sense in taking another talent.

[Nemesquish]

It was very overpowered at 50%, no sense in taking another talent.

Yea, Everyone should be much more upset at the Artifact changes, rather than Talent changes.

[Gathed]

Looks like they fixed Razorice application, obliterate/fs only apply 1 stack per use

[Baddok21]

Looks like they fixed Razorice application, obliterate/fs only apply 1 stack per use

did they also fix Razor Ice not giving bonus frost dmg to:

Remorseless Winter
Frost Fever
Avalanche procs
Frozen pulse Procs
BoS ticks (i think)

Razor Ice has been broken for a few builds now in the literal sense it was designed for

[Freedom]

I don't get it; what was wrong with Cold as Ice and Nothing But the Boots? If they are concerned about certain abilities, tune them. And I don't get why they keep trying to make certain meh artifact traits more appealing by buffing them(Bad to the Bone), AND nerfing others. IDK how big of a change in DPS it is, but I guess it will be a good idea to have another 110 relatively soon as "insurance" if DK's aren't doing well.

That said, the Death Strike change is nice (10% minimum heal). That means it will be a 40% heal per DS during IBF with Ice in Your Veins - I wonder if that will cause some PVP problems.

[Piz813]

Yea, Everyone should be much more upset at the Artifact changes, rather than Talent changes.

I'm bummed about ice cap for sure... Only hit HB on rime to begin with..

[Gathed]

did they also fix Razor Ice not giving bonus frost dmg to:

Remorseless Winter
Frost Fever
Avalanche procs
Frozen pulse Procs
BoS ticks (i think)

Razor Ice has been broken for a few builds now in the literal sense it was designed for

Yes to all of them. It also looks like they buffed the proc rate on Hypothermia, either that or I've been good rng.

Freedom, it's not about making traits worse off, its about balancing dps. With the changes and fix this patch, its significantly reduced our passive aoe, while retaining our single target that's all. Prior to today's patch, it use PoF with avalanche, rm, spam obliterate till you had no runes and just sit spamming Frostscythe on any pack with 2/3 or more mobs depending on crit levels.

[Maxweii]

I don't get it; what was wrong with Cold as Ice and Nothing But the Boots? If they are concerned about certain abilities, tune them. And I don't get why they keep trying to make certain meh artifact traits more appealing by buffing them(Bad to the Bone), AND nerfing others. IDK how big of a change in DPS it is, but I guess it will be a good idea to have another 110 relatively soon as "insurance" if DK's aren't doing well.

That said, the Death Strike change is nice (10% minimum heal). That means it will be a 40% heal per DS during IBF with Ice in Your Veins - I wonder if that will cause some PVP problems.

Frost had so many high scaling points that it was going to be scaling exponentially higher than intended, this helped tune that down. This WAS the tuning.

[RuneDK]

Frost had so many high scaling points that it was going to be scaling exponentially higher than intended, this helped tune that down. This WAS the tuning.

While stat scaling should be better off for frost this expansion...we should still be tuned high for now...history does tend to repeat itself so I would rather be "too good" at the beginning and balance off as my raid gets gear...than start balanced off and fall to the bottom, like we've pretty much experienced the last two expansions as frost...I know things are different now but I still don't fully trust it.

[Maxweii]

Starting off high just leads to nerfs soon into the tier, that's a horrible idea and shouldn't be what you "want" blizzard to do.

[RuneDK]

It's all dependent on how well frost actually scales. Right now we have no idea. Yes things are going to be different in Legion, but the question is by how much. I'm not saying we should be top dps by a large margin, but be one of the top dps specs to start the tier. If we scale well, then bring us down slightly. Problem is when Blizzard should nerf things using a scalpel they tend to use a hacksaw(frost in 6.2 for example). It's not horrible to start out strong though, so long as it's not broken and an outlier. My main concerns with Frost will still be starting out middle, ending in the bottom. If top to bottom is 5-7% then whatever, however Blizzard hasn't ever really gotten that balance thing right.

[Slagge]

Frost has the worst movement of any spec in the game so it really should be one of the highest DPS specs on a tank and spank fight in the game imo.

[Hctaz]

So the general consensus is that this is to balance out us overscaling as the patches roll on? I can understand that I suppose. Is the RI rune talent buff supposed to be their way of telling us to us double RI is the way to runeforge?

Nothing but the boots nerf hurts my soul a little. ;-;

[Raiju]

Yes, this is them pushing double RI