[Guardian] Legion Discussion

[Kaeth]

GG + Brambles in an AoE situation = 15-rage moonfire up constantly. It's crazy, even with the 10% proc chance.

Thrash and Swipe spam might be able to reliably keep Moonfire rolling on at least a few targets in an AoE pull at any given time, as well as give you the bonus rage proc every few seconds. But Brambles has zero interaction with Galactic Guardian -- neither the passive damage reflection nor the Barkskin AoE effect will trigger a free Moonfire.

[moveth]

Is the Maul nerf on the front page a new nerf or a tooltip change? From my understanding we were rarely ever in a place to use Maul, and with it being nerfed even more, I cant see why anyone would ever have it on their bars at this point. Or am I missing something?

[Gemini Soul]

Is the Maul nerf on the front page a new nerf or a tooltip change? From my understanding we were rarely ever in a place to use Maul, and with it being nerfed even more, I cant see why anyone would ever have it on their bars at this point. Or am I missing something?

Use it when soloing and when your not actively tanking, it is off the GCD.

[moveth]

Use it when soloing and when your not actively tanking, it is off the GCD.

Not gonna lie. For a moment, I actually forgot that solo content existed. I havent done anything but raid in months, haha.

I'm kinda gonna miss Tooth and Claw.

[adynn]

yeah, it's a bummer about Pulverize. why is passive (low skill ceiling) talent is better than an active one, that adds to your rotation and you have to manage. I want Pulverize to be better, so I can pick it. :-/

I on the other hand have always hated Pulverize due to it consuming Lacerate stacks. I know it'll be easier to generate them in Legion but I still really dislike how it plays, it does shitty damage and also causes us to do less damage and I don't understand why it still consumes the stacks when every other ability like it (conflag, swiftmend etc) were changed years ago.

Now it'd be ok if it did enough damage to break even, but it does not.

Also the current version dedicating 4 gcds every 12s to maintaining a 15% DR is really shit tbh.

[dexx]

How's guardian fairing with the latest round of tuning?

[Hostile]

it's not 15% DR, it's 8% DR on Beta right now. and it has to be at least 12% DR to be competetive.
I couldn't care less about Pulverize damage, all I need is DR. I'll worry about damage when I'm no longer progressing and in farm mode.

[Bearshield]

How's guardian fairing with the latest round of tuning?

Given the changes were all to our dps and most of the tanks saw dmg nerfs today as well, I'm not terribly concerned personally.

[Kaeth]

Any idea yet whether some tanks had their dps nerfed harder than others? I see across-the-board scaling coefficient nerfs, but I don't know the other tank specs in Legion well enough to tell how each were affected by their respective changes.

Our dps ranking among tanks was less than stellar before this build. Did it improve? Maul is worse than ever.

[Gemini Soul]

I think one of the reason why tanks got DPS nerfed was because of the Artifact, each rank we unlock is +1% dmg increase to a max of 34% damage increase.

[Bearshield]

I think one of the reason why tanks got DPS nerfed was because of the Artifact, each rank we unlock is +1% dmg increase to a max of 34% damage increase.

Artifact traits were nerfed as well.

[Gemini Soul]

Artifact traits were nerfed as well.

Yeah, but they haven't touched the built in trait that all Artifacts have tank wise, which increase damage with each trait opened up.

The nerf to Mangle will effect us the most, DPS wise.

[adynn]

it's not 15% DR, it's 8% DR on Beta right now. and it has to be at least 12% DR to be competetive.
I couldn't care less about Pulverize damage, all I need is DR. I'll worry about damage when I'm no longer progressing and in farm mode.

I know, I was talking about the WoD version which I detested.

The worst part of current Pulverize for me (and some over Druids that I talk to) is that you do effectively have to take it if you want maximum survivability. Now I don't mind trading a bit of damage for survivability, but Pulv was a hell of a time investment for 15% DR that also substantially lowered your damage. Really I just don't understand how anyone can like that design, it's quite a bit of work for not much payoff, but you needed it sometimes.

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Yeah, but they haven't touched the built in trait that all Artifacts have tank wise, which increase damage with each trait opened up.

The nerf to Mangle will effect us the most, DPS wise.

Somehow a lot of tank dps was changed in this build. But Blood DK's are still doing top dps and healing on every single raid I do.
And none of the overtuned blood abilities got changed one bit.

[v1perz53]

I know, I was talking about the WoD version which I detested.

The worst part of current Pulverize for me (and some over Druids that I talk to) is that you do effectively have to take it if you want maximum survivability. Now I don't mind trading a bit of damage for survivability, but Pulv was a hell of a time investment for 15% DR that also substantially lowered your damage. Really I just don't understand how anyone can like that design, it's quite a bit of work for not much payoff, but you needed it sometimes.

Eh, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. It isn't really a 4 GCD investment because you hit Lacerate(Thrash) anyway whether or not you take Pulv as a filler. In WoD because there is nothing else to hit and in Legion because it is good damage. In a single target situation right now, it would be almost impossible to not have Lacerate back up to 3 on a boss before Pulv falls off unless you just used Berzerk or something, it was only really cumbersome in AoE situations. And Legion fixes that by having stacks tied to an AoE ability. Really it just gives some interplay to your stacks and makes it something other than "stack to 3 and ignore forever", and the only "work" involved is hitting Pulv every ~15 seconds.

I have to say though I liked the Cata version better. It worked then because Lacerate's tick damage was much more inconsequential and Pulv hit really hard and buffed your crit, so it was a nice DPS boost to keep it up as well as the survivability boost. Current Legion version is pretty meh, the DR is too low, the damage of the ability is too low, and it is a DPS decrease because of the lost stacks. To me, if it were to stay at 8% DR it should give an 8% (or some other number) DPS increase too, or at least make the ability hit hard enough to be more of a "trade stack damage over time for a burst of damage now". Or just increase DR to ~12% or so, but I do want it back. Current rotation without it of Mangle on CD, Thrash on CD, keep MF up otherwise swipe is very simplistic, and AM doesn't take enough brainpower to offset that simplicity. Pulv was always a nice addition, one more thing to manage gave the rotation enough to actually have skill variance.

[Selerian]

Hey guys I'm planning on switching to bear in Legion after only having played Boomy in the past. First time tanking aswell regardless of class. Do I need to make some kind of preparations theory-wise and whatnot or with all the changes there's not much of a point and I'll be fine through leveling and reading up after Legion launches?

[dcc626]

Somehow a lot of tank dps was changed in this build. But Blood DK's are still doing top dps and healing on every single raid I do.
And none of the overtuned blood abilities got changed one bit.

im still amazed blood boil hasnt been touched. i have a feeling it wont stay that way forever.

[Deleted]

Correct me if im wrong bear mastery still increases the healing taken from all sources? Correct?

[Gemini Soul]

Correct me if im wrong bear mastery still increases the healing taken from all sources? Correct?

Increases all healing received by x%, what happens is your mastery heals you for X% of the amount healed. It's a separate heal that will show up on meters, it will also increase absorbs by X% also.

What i haven't tested yet, is if mastery also boosts the Absorb from brambles.

Edit:Looks like the mastery +healing portion does not boost brambles. Wonder if its a bug

[CenariusTheForestLord]

Increases all healing received by x%, what happens is your mastery heals you for X% of the amount healed. It's a separate heal that will show up on meters, it will also increase absorbs by X% also.

What i haven't tested yet, is if mastery also boosts the Absorb from brambles.

Edit:Looks like the mastery +healing portion does not boost brambles. Wonder if its a bug

Mastery got changed recently to add absorbs. Doubt they'll add reflects anytime soon.