1. #1341
    Quote Originally Posted by Sae View Post
    Great to see so many positive changes, and the nerfs we got feel pretty negligible. The buffs mostly seem to have come in the form of artifact traits, but that'll really only be an issue for the month-and-a-bit between prepatch and launch day.
    No it will be a problem for a while you won't get a artifact done fast. Even if the artifact changes were enough (they aren't ) it would mean combat is bad until it's all filled in meanwhile assassin/sub are way ahead with no artifact.
    Last edited by Wow; 2016-07-13 at 05:11 AM.

  2. #1342
    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    Sizable buffs all around and sable slash nerf is negligible. Outlaw might be a bit closer to assa and sub, probably not st still.
    I haven't played Outlaw a ton (so there were probably play errors), but I was doing ~75k less DPS than I do as Mut on Mythic bosses. And my Oulaw sabers are actually higher iLvl (878 vs. 872) compared to my daggers.

    The AE was still pretty terrible too. I never even came close to topping a pack, and I was in 3rd more than 2nd.

  3. #1343
    Yea it's still terrible at everything and I don't see them fixing it. I mean they nerfed snd in the same patch buffed finishers which buffs dfa nothing they've been doing makes sense. Just like assassination they nerfed everything but the top build I just don't get it.
    Last edited by Wow; 2016-07-13 at 05:37 AM.

  4. #1344
    Quote Originally Posted by PessimiStick View Post
    I haven't played Outlaw a ton (so there were probably play errors), but I was doing ~75k less DPS than I do as Mut on Mythic bosses. And my Oulaw sabers are actually higher iLvl (878 vs. 872) compared to my daggers.

    The AE was still pretty terrible too. I never even came close to topping a pack, and I was in 3rd more than 2nd.
    Thanks for making me cry.

  5. #1345
    Quote Originally Posted by PessimiStick View Post
    I haven't played Outlaw a ton (so there were probably play errors), but I was doing ~75k less DPS than I do as Mut on Mythic bosses. And my Oulaw sabers are actually higher iLvl (878 vs. 872) compared to my daggers.

    The AE was still pretty terrible too. I never even came close to topping a pack, and I was in 3rd more than 2nd.
    Did you have Fortune's Strike unlocked for the 60% Mastery dmg bonus as well as the Greed gold perk? FB bumped Mastery by a factor of 5x and Greed was more than doubled.
    Last edited by broggernaut; 2016-07-13 at 06:36 AM.

  6. #1346
    My outlaw artifact is too low here to get them. But so as far as i can test on dummy without the artifact changes outlaw is still behind. But in PVP outlaw does suprisingly good damage now. Less burst then assa, but way more then sub. Outlaw might actually be a better pvp spec now, it has about the same control as sub, just slightly less damage then assa, which is more then sub by alot. I feel for PVP every rogue spec is currently in a decent spot, nothing is really bad now that outlaw has good damage. Sub might infact be the underwhelming one, because it does nothing out of the ordinary now that outlaw has burst back.

  7. #1347
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by PessimiStick View Post
    I haven't played Outlaw a ton (so there were probably play errors), but I was doing ~75k less DPS than I do as Mut on Mythic bosses. And my Oulaw sabers are actually higher iLvl (878 vs. 872) compared to my daggers.

    The AE was still pretty terrible too. I never even came close to topping a pack, and I was in 3rd more than 2nd.
    Huh, what exactly did you expect? Unless you have the artifact traits that got buffed by a metric ton, base damage of the spec was pretty much untouched. Also it´s interesting that you just agreed with everything I said a few days ago (outlaw is behind, but indeed not by much, even in single target), apparently forgetting everything you said earlier.

  8. #1348
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wunju View Post
    Huh, what exactly did you expect? Unless you have the artifact traits that got buffed by a metric ton, base damage of the spec was pretty much untouched. Also it´s interesting that you just agreed with everything I said a few days ago (outlaw is behind, but indeed not by much, even in single target), apparently forgetting everything you said earlier.
    Do you even read what you are writing? Base Dmg of finishers were raised and also he didn't areed on your troll posts he said that he did 75k Dps less with stronger weapons, so that is an indicator for you that you were right Oo ... man pls stop posting here because 80% of it is nonsense and most of the other 20% are just false. No offense, but if you like talking about rogues and the changes to beta and stuff, make constructive feedback, no troll posts out of thin air.

    Also pls don't respond to this non-rogue related stuff (like you being troll) in this thread anymore, if you wan't to flame me or tell me how I'm wrong just pm me.
    Last edited by mmoc9038fdc8bf; 2016-07-13 at 10:15 AM.

  9. #1349
    Stop already with the fighting. It doesn't prove any point nor make the discussion better.
    Non ti fidar di me se il cuor ti manca.

  10. #1350
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Stop already with the fighting. It doesn't prove any point nor make the discussion better.
    There is one single guy in here that is causing misconduct, clearly looking to provoke with his constant nonsense about how every other rogue who did testing, theorycrafting and simcrafting is wrong, all the sims that are done are wrong, and he is right. How is that not blatant provocation, ignorance and disrespect toward every rogue that does actual work for the community?

    And in the end it's me who gets punished for calling the troll a troll...


    Infracted for forbidden topics. If you have an issue with moderation, PM a moderator.
    forbidden topics lul
    Last edited by mmoc325e08f867; 2016-07-13 at 02:03 PM.

  11. #1351
    Quote Originally Posted by broggernaut View Post
    Did you have Fortune's Strike unlocked for the 60% Mastery dmg bonus as well as the Greed gold perk? FB bumped Mastery by a factor of 5x and Greed was more than doubled.
    30%, not 60%. 60% would require three relics boosting the trait.

  12. #1352
    Bloodsail Admiral Kalador's Avatar
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    The biggest part of the buff to outlaw comes from artefact, it will be hard to judge without some logs from people with artefact who are advance... we also have to keep in mind that we probably won't have full artefact for progression. Outlaw looks behind but at least we can see that blizz is doing somthing.

    Also there's going be some optimistion in artefact filling for sure, i don't know the best route tho... any one thought about it, witch golden 1st 2nd and 3rd ?

  13. #1353
    Quote Originally Posted by Wunju View Post
    Huh, what exactly did you expect? Unless you have the artifact traits that got buffed by a metric ton, base damage of the spec was pretty much untouched. Also it´s interesting that you just agreed with everything I said a few days ago (outlaw is behind, but indeed not by much, even in single target), apparently forgetting everything you said earlier.
    I have 18 points in it. No Greed. It's still 25% behind other specs after this last round of changes. That's worthless, and quite in line with what I said previously.

    Edit: I have two Relics buffing the Main Gauche Node, and I forget what the third is in.

  14. #1354
    Quote Originally Posted by Wunju View Post
    Huh, what exactly did you expect? Unless you have the artifact traits that got buffed by a metric ton, base damage of the spec was pretty much untouched. Also it´s interesting that you just agreed with everything I said a few days ago (outlaw is behind, but indeed not by much, even in single target), apparently forgetting everything you said earlier.
    Honestly this whole conversation seems like half empty/half full issue. So to make things clear to everyone without using such subjective words like "utter crap" or "not by much" lets just put the numbers out there.

    Firstly you agree that Outlaw is behind. Roughly what percentage do you feel they are behind both subtlety and assassination respectively? Do you feel currently that Assassination and Sub do acceptable DPS in the large scheme of things, are they on the high end, low end of the spectrum? Also do how much do you thing last nights changes helped things percentage wise? If anything I asked you haven't had a chance to thoroughly test or run numbers on since the changes would you be will too at some point for those of us saps with no real beta access?

  15. #1355
    Bloodsail Admiral Kalador's Avatar
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    The buff to outlaw mastery might help them a lot in the long run, outlaw doesn't seems to have a weak stats as much as assa for exemple, and that might help them a lot with scaling, assa is powerful but will suffer from not getting a lot out of mastery/haste... This might not help at low level of gear but it might end up scaling well with gear.

  16. #1356
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    The buff to outlaw mastery might help them a lot in the long run, outlaw doesn't seems to have a weak stats as much as assa for exemple, and that might help them a lot with scaling, assa is powerful but will suffer from not getting a lot out of mastery/haste... This might not help at low level of gear but it might end up scaling well with gear.
    It will depend on how well gears even scales. They did say they wanted to slow down the scaling on ilevel in general for pvp and pve. We know scaling is not an issue in the first raid, because assa sits comfortably first for anything single target, out of all dps specs right now. With specs like Enh and Shadow(just got nerfed not sure about them anymore) being close. Scaling might slow this down in the second raid or the third or not at all. It just depends on how they handle the gear upgrade past the first tiers, its been different every expansion.

  17. #1357
    Bloodsail Admiral Kalador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    It will depend on how well gears even scales. They did say they wanted to slow down the scaling on ilevel in general for pvp and pve. We know scaling is not an issue in the first raid, because assa sits comfortably first for anything single target, out of all dps specs right now. With specs like Enh and Shadow(just got nerfed not sure about them anymore) being close. Scaling might slow this down in the second raid or the third or not at all. It just depends on how they handle the gear upgrade past the first tiers, its been different every expansion.
    For sure, it's hard to tell what will happen and when, even more so because they said they want thing to scale slower but it's still more scary when you scale well with only 2 stats vs 4 stats for other spec.

    I'm not super scared for outlaw, i think they will end up being good cleave, i dont care so much for ST as I enjoy playing more than 1 spec, for sure if you want to main outlaw it's not good but for me it's not a huge deal.

  18. #1358
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    For sure, it's hard to tell what will happen and when, even more so because they said they want thing to scale slower but it's still more scary when you scale well with only 2 stats vs 4 stats for other spec.

    I'm not super scared for outlaw, i think they will end up being good cleave, i dont care so much for ST as I enjoy playing more than 1 spec, for sure if you want to main outlaw it's not good but for me it's not a huge deal.
    Its a problem for some people that want to epeen or progresss. All the boss we know about so far are small cleave and single target bosses. Nobody cares or makes world first before of their aoe on trash. Hence Assa is currently what the raid test are flooded with.

  19. #1359
    Bloodsail Admiral Kalador's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouch View Post
    Its a problem for some people that want to epeen or progresss. All the boss we know about so far are small cleave and single target bosses. Nobody cares or makes world first before of their aoe on trash. Hence Assa is currently what the raid test are flooded with.
    We have 3 specs too chose from depending on what you need, we will probably end up with one above on St and one on AOE /Cleave. all 3 spec will probably shine somwhere, that's were playing a pure shine, having option...

  20. #1360
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalador View Post
    We have 3 specs too chose from depending on what you need, we will probably end up with one above on St and one on AOE /Cleave. all 3 spec will probably shine somwhere, that's were playing a pure shine, having option...
    People will still complain if its not their fantasy of choice thats number one. Hence sub whine thread when ever sub was not first.

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