Dawn of War 3

[Demoncrash]

I know nothing about Warhammer, but ever since the Total War game came out, I've really enjoyed it.

I see there's quite a few books. Any recommendations?

If you don't mind the grimdark, the Black Library has some amazing lore and authors. I actually like the books more than the table top/video games. Though i'am more of a 40k fan than old world.

Of the old world, i've only read Luthor Huss and Valkia The Bloody and liked both of them. While i haven't read them, the Gortek and Felix series is supposed to be really good.

In terms of 40k, a good place to start is either The Eisenhorn Trilogy or the first 3 books of the Horus Heresy(Horus Rising, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames). If you've played the previous Dawn of War games and have at least a basic understanding of the 40k universe, i highly recommend the Night Lords Trilogy by Aaron Dembski-Bowden.

[bloodmoth13]

Hmmm Lady Solaria is hot, I love a woman in armor.

The reason he gave for the changes to the cover system just sound like poor excuses for a technical limitation.

Damn of war II had directional cover, i dont think that level of micromanagement fits in a larger scale war, the new cover is just multidirectional cover in every direction, so its less micromanagement, which would feel tedious when you are coordinating massive armies.

Many people complained about the smaller scale of DoW II so fair enough for them.

But HOLY FUCKING SHIT THAT GAME LOOKS SO FUCKING GOOD!

[Deleted]

Damn of war II had directional cover, i dont think that level of micromanagement fits in a larger scale war, the new cover is just multidirectional cover in every direction, so its less micromanagement, which would feel tedious when you are coordinating massive armies.

Indeed. The cover system from DoW 2 and CoH is annoying if you attack with large armies. And the Cover system in DoW1 is nothing to write home about (and looked rather stupid).
I also prefer the new "cover = additional HP" approach over "Cover = +% dodge chance"

Did they say anything about the ressource system btw? Is it zone control once more? (I don't really like it that much)

[Deleted]

I know nothing about Warhammer, but ever since the Total War game came out, I've really enjoyed it.

I see there's quite a few books. Any recommendations?

If you want Warhammer Fantasy, Gotrek and Felix, if you want 40,000, start off with Gaunts Ghosts.

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Is it me or did they change Garbriels voice?

In fairness they changed VA's inbetween 1 and 2 as well, but the VA's used were both brothers, so this is a touch more jarring.

Hopefully its just for the early footage and they get in one of the original VA's.

[cudomix]

If you want Warhammer Fantasy, Gotrek and Felix, if you want 40,000, start off with Gaunts Ghosts.
.

I would start 40K with Caiphas Cain novels, they're somewhat lighter in tone and easier to get into (although Abnett is a better writer, grim tone can be a bit depressing).

[Deleted]

I would start 40K with Caiphas Cain novels, they're somewhat lighter in tone and easier to get into (although Abnett is a better writer, grim tone can be a bit depressing).

If you want an introduction in 40k literature, going with the comedy novels isn't exactly the way to go though, they are the exception, not the norm.

[Tommy T]

None of Gaunts Ghost on Kindle.
May just download the PDFs if I can find them.

[Nirawen]

Damn of war II had directional cover, i dont think that level of micromanagement fits in a larger scale war, the new cover is just multidirectional cover in every direction, so its less micromanagement, which would feel tedious when you are coordinating massive armies.

Many people complained about the smaller scale of DoW II so fair enough for them.

But HOLY FUCKING SHIT THAT GAME LOOKS SO FUCKING GOOD!

Aye you've basically just reiterated what the dev said. Sure you have access to control more units at once but I have yet to see anything that would lend to the idea that we will see a vastly increased global unit count (not per person, per game). The Company of Heroes games managed DoWII-style cover alongside controlling large forces just fine.

Don't get me wrong it still looks good and I'll undoubtedly enjoy it but I just don't like hearing about simplifcations and dumbing-down in strategy games especially when it doesn't feel warranted to me. I guess I just got on better with the previous cover system than others, I found it to be an interesting feature when creating your own cover using artillery etc (in both DoWII & CoH). I'll be sad to see it go but the game still has plenty to keep me.

[Deleted]

None of Gaunts Ghost on Kindle.
May just download the PDFs if I can find them.

Yeah, Black Library (thats Warhammers publishing house), doesn't do kindle for some reason, you can download all of there books in ebook format from the BL website itself, but as with everything Warhammer related, they are pretty expensive.

[Tommy T]

Yeah, Black Library (thats Warhammers publishing house), doesn't do kindle for some reason, you can download all of there books in ebook format from the BL website itself, but as with everything Warhammer related, they are pretty expensive.

Legend mate.
Much appreciated.

[Deleted]

Don't get me wrong it still looks good and I'll undoubtedly enjoy it but I just don't like hearing about simplifcations and dumbing-down in strategy games especially when it doesn't feel warranted to me. I guess I just got on better with the previous cover system than others, I found it to be an interesting feature when creating your own cover using artillery etc (in both DoWII & CoH). I'll be sad to see it go but the game still has plenty to keep me.

It's dumbing down for gameplay sake though, the cover system isn't really interesting for alot of players, especially when it comes down to melee and explosion spam.
SC2 doesn't use a cover system either, because it doesn't want to.
Same with DoW3, apparently - not sure why you think it's due to technical limitations

[bloodmoth13]

Indeed. The cover system from DoW 2 and CoH is annoying if you attack with large armies. And the Cover system in DoW1 is nothing to write home about (and looked rather stupid).
I also prefer the new "cover = additional HP" approach over "Cover = +% dodge chance"

Did they say anything about the ressource system btw? Is it zone control once more? (I don't really like it that much)

There is base building so i imagine its 'destroy your enemies base'

I didnt mind the DoW I cover system, it was a very simple system that was basically 'take less damage sitting in here' or 'take more damage if exposed' which created some strategic depth while being ridiculously simple to understand.

Though this system is probably a little more like the bases from DoW II that you could garrison units inside of, so you destroy the base then destroy the squishies inside.

I did enjoy the cover system in DoW II in small scale fights, felt quite cool covering your units and ensuring they were protected from certain angles, but in large scale fights you wanted the AI to be smart enough to do it automatically

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Aye you've basically just reiterated what the dev said. Sure you have access to control more units at once but I have yet to see anything that would lend to the idea that we will see a vastly increased global unit count (not per person, per game). The Company of Heroes games managed DoWII-style cover alongside controlling large forces just fine.

Don't get me wrong it still looks good and I'll undoubtedly enjoy it but I just don't like hearing about simplifcations and dumbing-down in strategy games especially when it doesn't feel warranted to me. I guess I just got on better with the previous cover system than others, I found it to be an interesting feature when creating your own cover using artillery etc (in both DoWII & CoH). I'll be sad to see it go but the game still has plenty to keep me.

I dont think simple design is dumbing down, and i dont equate convoluted gameplay with complexity, making something more difficult to use doesnt make a game better, it just makes it clunky, and simplifying controls doesnt make a game dumber, it makes it more smooth, there are extremes in either direction that do detract from the game, but overall the difficulty should be present through gameplay, not controls. For instance one thing i loved about DoW I or II was that squads were connected, which made managing massive armies alot easier as opposed to more traditional RTS games where each unit was its own individual unit and swarm style units were horrible to control.

There is already a ton of stuff to manage in these games including micro management without adding directional cover, removing that makes commanding your army smoother, and its a benefit granted to both sides of the playing field, so that doesnt make the game any easier really.

I can respect that you enjoyed it though, i enjoyed it too in many ways, but trying to quickly react to mass armies and having your guardsmen standing on the wrong side of your tanks was just infuriating. the command for them to take cover could be too micro while having to react to many other threats.
If it were done in a smoother manner it could be nice.

[Nirawen]

It's dumbing down for gameplay sake though, the cover system isn't really interesting for alot of players, especially when it comes down to melee and explosion spam.
SC2 doesn't use a cover system either, because it doesn't want to.
Same with DoW3, apparently - not sure why you think it's due to technical limitations

I dont think simple design is dumbing down, and i dont equate convoluted gameplay with complexity, making something more difficult to use doesnt make a game better, it just makes it clunky, and simplifying controls doesnt make a game dumber, it makes it more smooth, there are extremes in either direction that do detract from the game, but overall the difficulty should be present through gameplay, not controls. For instance one thing i loved about DoW I or II was that squads were connected, which made managing massive armies alot easier as opposed to more traditional RTS games where each unit was its own individual unit and swarm style units were horrible to control.

There is already a ton of stuff to manage in these games including micro management without adding directional cover, removing that makes commanding your army smoother, and its a benefit granted to both sides of the playing field, so that doesnt make the game any easier really.

I can respect that you enjoyed it though, i enjoyed it too in many ways, but trying to quickly react to mass armies and having your guardsmen standing on the wrong side of your tanks was just infuriating. the command for them to take cover could be too micro while having to react to many other threats.
If it were done in a smoother manner it could be nice.

I personally wouldn't call the system convoluted, I can attest to the few odd squad members standing in the wrong place but I did have that issue as much with static cover as with dynamic cover. For the most part holding move and pointing them the right direction was sufficient in DoWII & CoH for both types of cover, if you just try to move a unit onto cover they'll stand on it like lemmings true. Moving large armies with one click would obviously result in a mess cover-wise but that's always been the case.

I agree it makes the system smoother but I think in the process you lose a large amount of the reward for tactical micromanagement which is a big part of what made me love DoW. I guess it's mostly just personal preference on which style of RTS you prefer, for someone in the SC2 camp it could just be an annoyance. May be just what they've shown that is jarring to me but seeing the preplaced thigh-high barricades arranged out on a flat expanse just seemed dull in comparison to what we've had.

As for it being a technical limitation that's just speculation, not accusing them but believe dynamic cover would be first on the chopping block if they did have limitations due to (supposedly) increased global unit counts. Entirely possible & valid that it's to make gameplay more fluid... I just prefer thick, crunchy gameplay for my RTS's .

On a more serious note; Dreadnoughts. I hope they don't have individual unit caps so I can have an army solely of Dreadnoughts if, and when, I choose to.

[Demoncrash]

Playthrough of the mission showcased at E3, this time showing in-game UI and with narration.



Interesting that cover actually needs to be captured now to be effective.

[Deleted]

Ya, pretty much DoW1, looks solid, will play.

I hope the unit variety is big enough.

[Shinzai]

Playthrough of the mission showcased at E3, this time showing in-game UI and with narration.

[video=youtube;ZAy0N-lFGFc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAy0N-lFGFc&feature=youtu.be[/ video]

Interesting that cover actually needs to be captured now to be effective.

Looks brilliant now. Some kind of hybrid between Starcraft and Dawn of War 1. I love the way it looks, definitely going to be my next RTS. The scale is great too, minor disappointment over smaller units losing detail, due to the Epic level scope, but hugely satisfied that much larger units will be a more consistent theme.

[OIS]

Playthrough of the mission showcased at E3, this time showing in-game UI and with narration.

Interesting that cover actually needs to be captured now to be effective.

Is it just me or is Angelos' voice is changed?

[DesoPL]

Pls let the grey knights appear in game, they are awesome!

Also i waited long for this day!

[Deleted]

Looked forward to DOW3, but this looks nasty to me. The art style looks worse than DOW1 and the game in general looks a bit off.

I'll wait until it's released before I judge it too hard, but it's not going to be a pre-order or day 1 purchase for me. Hopefully it's a better game than it looks.

Is it just me or is Angelos' voice is changed?

Pretty sure I read they had a new voice actor for some horrible reason. I hate it when game developers include an old, fan favorite character and then fail to get the original voice actor. One of my major gripes with Warcraft things like HOTS where they bring back Anub'arak in a W3-esque game and then give him a completely different voice.

[OIS]

Pretty sure I read they had a new voice actor for some horrible reason. I hate it when game developers include an old, fan favorite character and then fail to get the original voice actor. One of my major gripes with Warcraft things like HOTS where they bring back Anub'arak in a W3-esque game and then give him a completely different voice.

That sucks donkey balls. I'm hugely disappointed. Dawn of War games had supreme voice acting, my expectations are still high, but Paul Dobson's voice was pure bliss and without him Angelos will surely be lacking.

The thing with Anub'arak though, his voice in Frozen Throne is too similar with Abathur. Perhaps that influenced Blizzard's decision.