[LEGION]: FROST Death Knight

[Piz813]

Yes, this is them pushing double RI

So take Shattering Strikes over Icy talons now? Or are the two balanced out to be roughly equal and the player can choose which he likes better?

[Vicus]

So take Shattering Strikes over Icy talons now? Or are the two balanced out to be roughly equal and the player can choose which he likes better?

Like many talents, it should depend on the whole build and/or if they decided to nerf current resource gains. I think the current impression is that the haste wont be as useful unless you are finding a bunch of downtime (such as using BoS in the final tier).

[Maxweii]

So the general consensus is that this is to balance out us overscaling as the patches roll on? I can understand that I suppose. Is the RI rune talent buff supposed to be their way of telling us to us double RI is the way to runeforge?

Nothing but the boots nerf hurts my soul a little. ;-;

Since last build that was the intention but I think this defiantly pushes it to where we certainly want to use it.

So take Shattering Strikes over Icy talons now? Or are the two balanced out to be roughly equal and the player can choose which he likes better?

Not sure on this would have to be tested/likely simmed out a lot to see which wins.

[RuneDK]

Frost has the worst movement of any spec in the game so it really should be one of the highest DPS specs on a tank and spank fight in the game imo.

This too...The way you compensate for low mobility is a lot of damage. If we're shit mobility and mediocre dps there's almost no reason to bring a frost dk assuming DH/Rogues/Warriors are doing more damage when on target.

[Emophia]

This too...The way you compensate for low mobility is a lot of damage. If we're shit mobility and mediocre dps there's almost no reason to bring a frost dk assuming DH/Rogues/Warriors are doing more damage when on target.

You can take every other melee out of the picture and just say there's no reason to bring a frost DK when unholy does more damage on and off the target. They're going to need to be real delicate with balancing the 2 specs.

[Piz813]

You can take every other melee out of the picture and just say there's no reason to bring a frost DK when unholy does more damage on and off the target. They're going to need to be real delicate with balancing the 2 specs.

Hope that's not the case... Not everyone will perfect the UH burst AoE. Have wounds, DnD, then SS your ass off while virulent plague ticks on everything.

... I think that's how it goes?

[Halobob87]

Unless things changes in next patch, frost will be shitty if paried with unholy, on both st and aoe. This patch's nerf hit us hard, really, really hard. I lost like 80k sustained ST damage (i'm 864).

[Piz813]

Unless things changes in next patch, frost will be shitty if paried with unholy, on both st and aoe. This patch's nerf hit us hard, really, really hard. I lost like 80k sustained ST damage (i'm 864).

Shit REALLY?? Damn. Now I have to learn UH again... Not giving up my raid spot cause the special I love and chose is doing crap numbers with 0 raid utility

[Maxweii]

Some (most) of that was lost from bug fixes. Frost was above where it should have been anyways.

[Fenrkyr]

You can take every other melee out of the picture and just say there's no reason to bring a frost DK when unholy does more damage on and off the target. They're going to need to be real delicate with balancing the 2 specs.

I'd like to think Blizzard would put forth more efort to ensuring specs are close together now that you really do need to somewhat commit to one or the other, but frost has always played a secondary role to unholy, and I really doubt that they will ever let frost be competitive with unholy for mythic raiding.

[ant13]

One thing they (blizzard's class designers) know very well is how to fuck up a spec...

I will never touch unholy in legion no matter what, I m fed up of forced to play unholy every single major patch, I d rather be benched or unsub... they ruined my high hopes for this expansion...

[Baddok21]

on a base level unholy does offer alot more QoL then Frost even if the damage was tuned the same, playing frost vs Unholy for me has always been about output at the end of the day cause Unholy has the bulk of niceties the class has to offer.

15% base rune speed
1-2 Death Grips (abom)
better ranged dmg (tuning aside VP+CS+Pets+Epidemic+DC > Rime+ FF + Hypothermia) simply a more mechanically sound and robust toolkit to work with
better off target dmg (even if the numbers were the same Unholy has far more tools to execute all forms of AoE/Spread AoE/Burst AoE/ST/single Target Burst)

Frost has to be tuned as a higher DPS spec for it to be favorable to me over Unholy (and i dislike Unholy, it just has all the small perks)

[Maxweii]

One thing they (blizzard's class designers) know very well is how to fuck up a spec...

I will never touch unholy in legion no matter what, I m fed up of forced to play unholy every single major patch, I d rather be benched or unsub... they ruined my high hopes for this expansion...

Ruined your hopes by accurately tuning something, and tuning isn't even done?
I mean if you think the fucked up on Frost you must have not actually tried it

[RuneDK]

@Baddock21 I will probably quit the game if frost isn't viable in mythic raiding. I'm tired of playing unholy in PvE. Two expansions now and really the last six tiers have been all about unholy. Yes that's going back to cataclysm in dragon soul.

[Piz813]

I spoke to Mooniara, who I guess is the only theorycrafter we have left (rip skull), and he said even with the "tuning" frost will be fine. UH will still be the king of AoE but frost damage is still good. BoS was buffed and so was singragosa. He said to also watch for the numbers later on double Razor Ice and shattering strikes

Personally I dislike BoS very much. GA is picky on your target and obliteration won't be useful till 110 or we break the fourth piece T18

[Senel]

Ruined your hopes by accurately tuning something, and tuning isn't even done?
I mean if you think the fucked up on Frost you must have not actually tried it

People are quick to say the sky is falling. lol

[Gemini Soul]

I can't see RIx2 being the way they want us to be, it also messes with our survivability from loosing out on FC heal

[Fenrkyr]

Pretty trivial heal though for raiding or PVP. Its certainly helpful when our questing or soloing stuff, but healers won't even notice the difference and PVP is always going to revolve around a 100-0 in 5 seconds sort of thing.

[Nemesquish]

People are quick to say the sky is falling. lol

The Artifact nerfs were a bit extreme.

Frost has probably been the worst overall spec (If you take raids by tier and average them) Since it came out.

Even though frost was extremely strong, We would still equal out with a Hunter on Overall Boss fights(And some say Unholy was better, but I didn't see a log to prove such), There's no reason Frost shouldn't be the top spec for a tier or 2.

With arguably the worst mobility in the game, Having one of the top on target dps shouldn't be a problem.

[Maxweii]

People are quick to say the sky is falling. lol

Well the king is dead so who do we go and tell now?

I can't see RIx2 being the way they want us to be, it also messes with our survivability from loosing out on FC heal

The heal in a raid is very minimal and hardly ever comes when you need it. For Shattering Strikes it has been said to be what you're intended to use, and the Razorice perk on the artifact being buffed helps that even more.

The Artifact nerfs were a bit extreme.

Frost has probably been the worst overall spec (If you take raids by tier and average them) Since it came out.

Even though frost was extremely strong, We would still equal out with a Hunter on Overall Boss fights(And some say Unholy was better, but I didn't see a log to prove such), There's no reason Frost shouldn't be the top spec for a tier or 2.

With arguably the worst mobility in the game, Having one of the top on target dps shouldn't be a problem.

The artifact nerfs were warranted because if not it would have had some really exponential scaling of power later on, which we wouldn't want because then nerfs come later on.

There's no reason it "should" be the top spec at all, it should be viable, competative and that's all. It has missed those marks, but it's looking a lot better for Frost than it has in the past.