1. #2561
    Quote Originally Posted by the boar View Post
    i am personally getting 15-20k more dps with First Blood over Bloodlet (not abusing the 3s Demonic buff extension bug, for the record) on the Imprisoned Forgefiend

    but i only have 1 point in sharpened glaives right now. could that be why?

    funnily enough trade chat now is debating felblade vs bloodlet and nobody is mentioning first blood.. am i pushing my buttons very wrong? 160~k ilvl 831
    Your probably hitting a rat next to the target dummy and Critting it for millions

    - - - Updated - - -

    How so? I'd agree with you if you said heroic ragnaros
    I dont play in a hardcore no-lifer guild, but in a 2 days a week "hardcore" mythic guild.

  2. #2562
    Quote Originally Posted by Makro View Post
    I look back to old bosses and find plenty where jumping and dashing around would have messed with the strategy.
    I just hope the spec will not be tuned around momentum being the best build so it doesn't feel gimped in fights and situations where positioning is relevant.
    I cant really think of any Legion boss I have tested so far where Momentum would be an issue. There are several windows where you can make use of the buff without screwing the boss over. For previous bosses, I can only think of Butcher as the complete Momentum no go due to the stacking mechanic. Might be forgetful though.

  3. #2563
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkol View Post
    People won't like this, but i've honestly not played a more bland, uninteresting spec in all my years of playing. This is where people tell me Havoc is actually interesting, and actually has more than a few buttons. I've seen people shouted down for this, and while not strictly true, Havoc is more simple, has less synergy between skills and talents, and has less flow than almost any spec i've played.

    I wanted to main Havoc, but i can almost certainly say i won't touch it with a 12 foot pole. I just don't get how such a new class can be formed so poorly. And bear in mind, Blizzard have the talented designers. They're smarter than me. But look at the Monk and DK. Problems, but way better than the state DH is in right now. The single target build is just disgusting in how bland it is. Blow CDs, and then build spend FOREVER. Now you get to throw some glaives in. It's just dreadful. No procs, no real interaction or interest at all.

    The momentum build is something i probably wouldn't play personally, and it probably isn't even viable on some bosses. That's barely better. All that fucking work to make a talent set up worth it. I mean, i don't really know what to say. Seems like if you aren't in Meta form, it's pretty bad.

    The only thing i can say is maybe the lack of haste on the copied chars i was testing is so low it feels shit. Saying that, all specs i tested are in the same boat.

    It just feels entirely mashed together. Forced together to make some acceptable(But dreadfully bland) builds that do ok dps. I mean, are you guys actually finding this fun. Subjective shit i know, but i genuinely have no clue how Havoc is any sort of an engaging spec.

    It's possible a big lack of haste was to blame, but all specs i tested were in the same boat. The sad thing is, most other stuff is pretty fun, the jumping around, the Fel Rushing, and then you get in to the rotation, which you'll be doing most of the time, and then it hits you.

    I hope Vengeance is somewhat better.
    Momentum build is the most fun build out there, I like it alot.. it's something new not the same as all other classes, I think I'm not the only one + it doesn't force you to play Momentum, they will probably tune most builds to be close as Momentum, if Momentum becomes the strongest build out there.

  4. #2564
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodai View Post
    Didn't they just buff Enh shammy, even tho they're really strong but yeah looks quite good anyway, there's still tuning to be down, so we shouldn't let us down just yet
    Doesn't make sense to leave things like this. I'm sure more nerfs to other classes are coming or we're getting buffs.

    Actually I don't mind getting nerfs as long as every DPS does about the equal so every class is competitive. But leaving UH DKs, Rogues and Enhacement Shamans in their current state is beyond dumb.

  5. #2565
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangomah View Post
    I cant really think of any Legion boss I have tested so far where Momentum would be an issue. There are several windows where you can make use of the buff without screwing the boss over. For previous bosses, I can only think of Butcher as the complete Momentum no go due to the stacking mechanic. Might be forgetful though.
    theres a timer for that stacking dot. plan your pop ins and outs with the timer and g2g
    Science the shit out of it!

  6. #2566
    I think the sky is falling over beta numbers is nonsense. Overall tuning isn't going to happen in one patch, and sometimes things stay strong to try to force testing of specific talents. Worrying about numbers in beta is strange, and basing whether or not you plan to reroll (and complaining you won't now) over numbers is absolutely absurd. DH aren't going to launch completely broken no one wants to play them. Enha, Fire, and Assass aren't going to live head and shoulders above everything. Just breathe, focus on DH mechanically, and look at final numbers a week or so from launch.

    I've also said this before, and I'll say it again: crying about momentum without playing it doesn't help anything. It plays much different that it looks - watching it is WEIRD, even for me. I've played momentum since the start and I see some spazz jumping around on video and I'm like "what the fuck are they doing, they're fucking crazy". Trust me, when you're playing it it feels a ton difference than it looks. I've also raid tested (at varying levels of success) and the only bosses that form the slightest issues are:

    Star Augar, mythic: the patterns are annoying af if you're already moving. And go for the entire fight. Accidental explosions.
    Anomaly, mythic: There are orbs of doom. Easy to avoid if you have half a brain while using it. Only a problem if you tunnel, in which case.. you deserve it.
    Krosus, any difficulty: you can fling yourself off the edge. Strafe rush, problem solved. Or turn your camera. Not that difficult. You should be used to strafe-rush anyway.

    Additionally, nem / FE are close enough that unless you're pushing WF it doesn't matter right now. That's been their goal this entire time, and we've achieved that, so it's just maintaining that here on out to give you options, even if it's not optimal.

    Don't compare HFC, which wasn't built with a build like momentum in mind, and say "IT'S NOT VIABLE!". Yeah.. it's not.. but we're not going to be in HFC. I'm not. You do what you want, but fuck that place, I refuse to go back once we're going.

    TL;DR - it's beta, folks. If you can't handle nerfs and weird builds, I suggest waiting for live. And basing reroll / roll on something you can't play is extraordinarily dumb, unless you're just looking for FoTM OP.

  7. #2567
    @Vanyali comes in with the hammer.

    (Weird to have a slight erection?)

    That said, people said the same thing about the sub rotation that we are so used to (for sub players obv) and that it would be nonviable. Same thing about momentum now.

    I get what people are saying about mythic though. if you are top 50, having several options is a must as you need to push numbers with lack of gear that other scrubs (like most of us) can do with more gear.

    as Vanyali said though. FInal tuning is not done yet, but with that in mind. Someone has to be top. DH might not be it when Legion launches and that is fine

  8. #2568
    I've been running Demon Blades for a while now and I find it scales really well with haste, especially demonic. I dont have raw data to shpw to support this, just anecdotes, but the 25% haste from meta means you get a full fury bar in a flash, letting you get some extra annils. The damage is pretty high atm like the blue said, but the fury gen is where its supposed to and it's really fluid now.

  9. #2569
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLimonTree View Post
    I've been running Demon Blades for a while now and I find it scales really well with haste, especially demonic. I dont have raw data to shpw to support this, just anecdotes, but the 25% haste from meta means you get a full fury bar in a flash, letting you get some extra annils. The damage is pretty high atm like the blue said, but the fury gen is where its supposed to and it's really fluid now.
    How many empty globals you got roughly?

  10. #2570
    Herald of the Titans BarelyLegalBear's Avatar
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    Well, i'm definitely enjoying Havoc. I'm currently 108 and this is actually the first time in a long time, i've had a ton of fun leveling. The AoE is absolutely insane, I shit on everything that comes at me. Are DH's the new kings of AoE?
    Definitely considering maining one for legion purely because of the fun factor, but in a raiding/dungeon environment, how are we so far? ST seems kind of weak right now at least to me, AoE though, is rather exceptional. I'm not max level yet, but i'd just like to hear everyone else's opinion about it.

  11. #2571
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangomah View Post
    How many empty globals you got roughly?
    I'd say I can get go from 0-150 (my current max) in about 3 globals if I have several charges stored. To compliment this I run felblade and fel mastery, which gives me another way of generating fury while I pool Dblade stacks.

  12. #2572
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanyali View Post
    I think the sky is falling over beta numbers is nonsense. Overall tuning isn't going to happen in one patch, and sometimes things stay strong to try to force testing of specific talents. Worrying about numbers in beta is strange, and basing whether or not you plan to reroll (and complaining you won't now) over numbers is absolutely absurd. DH aren't going to launch completely broken no one wants to play them. Enha, Fire, and Assass aren't going to live head and shoulders above everything. Just breathe, focus on DH mechanically, and look at final numbers a week or so from launch.
    Well said. If people, like myself, are just playing Beta to get a feel for DH, now is not the time to base your judgement around DPS and damage. Try the new builds and talents, see what you like and don't like.

    For me, it's going to be hard to beat prepared/felblade/momentum/demonic in enjoyment of playing. I don't care much for the chemo spec, but I haven't given it enough practice to really see how it flows. I'm not going to give up on DH just because this patch of Beta makes it better. We got 6 more weeks of tuning before we should start to panic.

  13. #2573
    Deleted
    if you go through the class forums and look at other legion incoming specs, nearly all of them are in the same panic mode that some players are here.

    i wonder if you went back to beta testing threads before each expansion if there was the same panic over numbers before they went live.

  14. #2574
    The problem is, that Blizzard does take bad numbers and bad mechanics from Beta to Live. I mean look at what they did before WoD, many Speccs were a mess on Beta and they were still taken to Live (e.g. Arms / Fury warrior)

  15. #2575
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    The problem is, that Blizzard does take bad numbers and bad mechanics from Beta to Live. I mean look at what they did before WoD, many Speccs were a mess on Beta and they were still taken to Live (e.g. Arms / Fury warrior)
    While this is true, it's unlikely to happen based on the kit DHs have. DHs are likely to scale pretty well and the recent changes seem to help them scale even more. Please remember that we don't even have modelling for Tier yet. Thankfully, a blue confirmed ~8hours ago that Demon Blades isn't intended to be the best single-target rotation because of its passive play.

  16. #2576
    During all of WoD beta hunters were absolutely terrible and didn't even look to be playable at all, when live hit they were the most OP dps in the game.

    Number tuning during Beta means next to nothing, it only shows on a spec basis which spells might have priority over others and what their general idea is, the balance between all classes is nothing to go by.

    I must say that I'm a bit sad that Demon Reborn has lost a lot of interesting value, because that talent tier was already pretty dull to start with.

  17. #2577
    It seems kind of bad to rely on a tier set to help bridge the gap though doesn't it?

  18. #2578
    Correct me if im wrong but after the buff/nerf changes is this the builds to go?

    Fel eruptions for single target fights?

    Momentum för cleave/aoe fights?

    So for mythic+ dungeons for example momentum will usually be the best to go?

  19. #2579
    Deleted
    DH will enter the game pretty strong, if nothing else Blizz wouldnt want to create a class that no one wants to play. + DH are a hero class and if you look at the only other example of a hero class, to this day still one of the strongest.

    all Devs have said you owe it to yourself to at least try one so they will want to make them appeal to alot of players. Even if that means just giving damage boosts across the board so they hit big.


    so don't be so negative

  20. #2580
    Quote Originally Posted by Dankdruid View Post
    DH will enter the game pretty strong, if nothing else Blizz wouldnt want to create a class that no one wants to play. + DH are a hero class and if you look at the only other example of a hero class, to this day still one of the strongest.

    all Devs have said you owe it to yourself to at least try one so they will want to make them appeal to alot of players. Even if that means just giving damage boosts across the board so they hit big.


    so don't be so negative
    But it's so fun being negative

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