Baton Rouge officer: Alton Sterling reached for a gun before he was shot

[zenkai]

And in the video evidence we see his hand got nowhere near the gun. The officer had a higher chance of hurting himself when he unloaded on him in point blank range. But i'll wait for more evidence, maybe he did reach for it or grab it? Then justified, sure. But so far I see no reaching for a gun just two shitty cops that can't keep their shit together and royally fucked up big time.

I see a career criminal and sex offender who had 911 called on him for pulling a gun on someone, then resisted arrest, even after being tased and was shot during the struggle after an officer shouted he has a gun.

[alexkeren]

I want them to explain how the two of them pinning him to the ground with at least partial control of his arms couldn't stop this without executing him.

But I'm not really sure why we need another thread for something that has been said since the guy was shot.

He gets a shot off, nicks one of the officers, they fall off him, freeing him, he gets up and kills them. That is what you would like to have happened apparently.

People like you need to be run through training scenarios that involve situations like that. You'll quickly learn when one guy outweighs two other guys, he's still a serious physical threat even if on the ground.

[Noxx79]

You want me to provide data that more blacks get arrested, are involved in crimes, and are incarcerated vs. white people?

You really need me to Google that for you? I'm not being racist, at all. I'm presenting facts amongst a SLEW of SJW teenager's with underdeveloped brains posting on the forums spreading utter nonsense.

"herp derp let's take the criminal's side who was resisting arrest herrrp deerrpp"

Most black people do not commit crimes. So, yes, you are being racist.

[Reeve]

Thats kinda beside my point but youre right that if he had a gun, he had a gun and he might have been reaching for it. I feel we lost each other somewhere along the way or that I might have misunderstood you at some point.

What Im suggesting is that it doesnt actually matter if he had a gun or not. We know for fact that he was at least not wielding a gun at any point, right? We have two people dead, in a span of two days; Alton and Philandro, both are claimed to be doing the same thing, reaching for a perceived weapon in their pocket. Thats the difference between stand you ground laws and a perceived threat, and the duty to retreat protection of life.

Yeah, I'd agree he was never actually wielding a gun.

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Damn, no one can take a joke

People tend to say or imply that liberals have no clue how guns work and that we're all idiots often enough that it seems like people making those "jokes" really believe them.

[Dug]

I see a career criminal and sex offender who had 911 called on him for pulling a gun on someone, then resisted arrest, even after being tased and was shot during the struggle after an officer shouted he has a gun.

I'm not saying the guy is a saint, I'm questioning whether the shooting is justified or not. Resisting is not grounds for shooting in my book. The key here is whether he reached for the weapon or not. You can't see "clearly" in the video evidence but I can't imagine what other evidence they could provide other than "They said so"

[zenkai]

Yeah, I'd agree he was never actually wielding a gun.

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People tend to say or imply that liberals have no clue how guns work and that we're all idiots often enough that it seems like people making those "jokes" really believe them.

There are a lot of pro gun liberal democrats, a lot more thanks to the nightclub shooting

[Feeline10]

"Think for yourself. Question authority. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability to inform yourself." Timothy Leary.

The object is to never assume guilt or innocence or "good intentions". We should never give authority the "benefit of the doubt." Investigation is supposed to reveal truths and protect us from authority and the authority is supposed to protect us. Only when we have shown that authority has failed us, is it because of our questioning of it in the first place. We need to always look at authority cautiously.

Fair enough, you've presented a good argument. However, most of the people in this thread are simply BLAMING the police for "not doing their job," or some other nonsense that conveniently fits their narrative. I'm ALL FOR an investigation to get to the bottom of it. But for people, particularly these BLM folks to get out pitchforks every time a black criminal resists arrests or does something wrong and police do what they were trained to do, it's especially disheartening because as we saw in Dallas, police officers put their lives on the line, literally, to help protect the public and us civilians at all cost.

[Daymanmb]

He gets a shot off, nicks one of the officers, they fall off him, freeing him, he gets up and kills them. That is what you would like to have happened apparently.

I imagine, yet I can only really speak for myself, that people would prefer to see no one killed in these situations.

[Reeve]

There are a lot of pro gun liberal democrats, a lot more thanks to the nightclub shooting

I'm certainly not pro-gun. If I had my druthers, handguns would be illegal. People can use shotguns and rifles for home defense, target shooting, and hunting. Hard for police to freak out and shoot you because they think you have a long arm in your pocket.

That said, as long as they are legal, I enjoy going down to the shooting range occasionally with my uncle and his guns. I enjoy learning about the mechanics of the guns, which I think are cleverly engineered, and I believe that as long as guns are a major part of life in the United States, it behooves me to know something about them.

[Feeline10]

Most black people do not commit crimes. So, yes, you are being racist.

You knew what I meant.

Crime is a thing.

Is more crime being committed by whites or blacks? I didn't mean to say "most black people commit crimes," and I think you damn well knew what I meant.

Prison is a thing.

Are more blacks and people of color incarcerated or are whites?

These are quite obviously rhetorical, btw.

[zenkai]

I'm not saying the guy is a saint, I'm questioning whether the shooting is justified or not. Resisting is not grounds for shooting in my book. The key here is whether he reached for the weapon or not. You can't see "clearly" in the video evidence but I can't imagine what other evidence they could provide other than "They said so"

Resisting is one thing, resisting with a gun is another. It really does come down to if he was reaching for the gun though I will say. If police are going to take resisting armed suspects in they need a better solution that a taser thats for sure, that shit doesn't work half the time.

[Bullettime]

He gets a shot off, nicks one of the officers, they fall off him, freeing him, he gets up and kills them. That is what you would like to have happened apparently.

People like you need to be run through training scenarios that involve situations like that. You'll quickly learn when one guy outweighs two other guys, he's still a serious physical threat even if on the ground.

They had two fucking officers, had tased him so he was certainly at least in a weakened state unless drugged out of his gourd, and were both on top of him to restrain but was still able to flail his arm, meaning they did a shit job at restraining him or he didn't grab for the gun and they fired at him for still struggling.

Either way, the criminal is a scumbag and the officers blew it badly.

[Noxx79]

You knew what I meant.

Crime is a thing.

Is more crime being committed by whites or blacks? I didn't mean to say "most black people commit crimes," and I think you damn well knew what I meant.

Prison is a thing.

Are more blacks and people of color incarcerated or are whites?

These are quite obviously rhetorical, btw.

You seem to have meant that because they are black, they will likely commit a crime, whereas the white people will not.
Prison has been demonstrably proven to have racial disparities in sentencing for the same crime, so that's a lol argument.

[Daymanmb]

You knew what I meant.

Yeh, thats kind of his point. That is what you meant.

[Feeline10]

You seem to have meant that because they are black, they will likely commit a crime, whereas the white people will not.
Prison has been demonstrably proven to have racial disparities in sentencing for the same crime, so that's a lol argument.

Why are you purposely ignoring what you know what to be true?

CRIME IS A THING, RIGHT?

Is more crime committed by blacks or by whites, percentage wise?

Again, it's fucking rhetorical, man.

[Daymanmb]

Prison has been demonstrably proven to have racial disparities in sentencing for the same crime, so that's a lol argument.

Only that it seems, those fact always need to be re-proven when something like this happens.

[dubious_doomhammer]

You want me to provide data that more blacks get arrested, are involved in crimes, and are incarcerated vs. white people?

You really need me to Google that for you? I'm not being racist, at all. I'm presenting facts amongst a SLEW of SJW teenager's with underdeveloped brains posting on the forums spreading utter nonsense.

"herp derp let's take the criminal's side who was resisting arrest herrrp deerrpp"

Nobody knew what his criminal record was until AFTER he was shot dead, not even the cops ... so talking about his past is pointless in this conversation.

We're talking about cops being way too quick to kill someone because they "perceive" a threat when usually they're the ones that escalate the situation. Everyone seems to think that because they're police officers, they somehow get an automatic pass for everything they do - or that we should take what they say at face value with no questions asked.

Do you think they would have had to kill the man if they had remained calm instead of immediately going full offensive mode and escalating the situation for no reason? Do you think a lot of police interactions would go differently if police were trained better in de escalation better and how to handle distressed or mentally ill suspects better?

[Feeline10]

Yeh, thats kind of his point. That is what you meant.

No, what I meant is.. crime is something that happens. Are more blacks committing crime or are more whites committing crime?

Again, this is rhetorical because even with those who choose to put their heads in the sand.. I'm sure they know the answer. Saying that's a racist thought is equally as retarded. You can quickly Google this statistic.

[Bullettime]

Resisting is one thing, resisting with a gun is another. It really does come down to if he was reaching for the gun though I will say. If police are going to take resisting armed suspects in they need a better solution that a taser thats for sure, that shit doesn't work half the time.

The taser actually works fine if the person isn't totally drugged out. One of the things (briefly) mentioned in training as well is to recognize continued struggle vs minor convulsing from the effect.

[Dug]

Resisting is one thing, resisting with a gun is another. It really does come down to if he was reaching for the gun though I will say. If police are going to take resisting armed suspects in they need a better solution that a taser thats for sure, that shit doesn't work half the time.

Pistol whip that ass imo